Jesus and scripture

Mar 07, 2008 08:27

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods?"' If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came -- and the scripture cannot be broken -- do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?'" -John 10:34-35

1) Why does Jesus refer to the ( Read more... )

biblical interpretation, literalism, jesus, questions

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Comments 53

policraticus March 7 2008, 14:50:19 UTC
You seem to be arguing that we accept the OT as a valid and authoritative expression of God's revelation to man.

I think this is unfair because there are a lot of parts of the OT that are scary and sad and force me to think of things other than puppy dogs and unicorns. That makes me uncomfortable.

You are mean.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 14:54:30 UTC
I am sorry to have made you uncomfortable. We know Jesus would never have wanted that. So I will renounce my faith immediately. Feel better now?

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policraticus March 7 2008, 14:58:28 UTC
You certainly don't have to renounce your faith. Faith is superduper important, almost as important as belief and diversity and even those kitten macros.

Just, you know, ignore the parts that scare and confuse me.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 15:19:57 UTC
Well, you see, the problem is that I am Jewish. So the only basis on which I can come to the Christ is if all that icky stuff in the OT about sin and killing innocent animals is literally true.

Of course, I know my sense of guilt is just the psychological result of not having been breast-fed long enough -- and that the only reason I believe in a God who would demand blood sacrifice is that I was raised in a highly patriarchal household. But I can't shake it.

Without all the icky parts of the OT, I must return to my previous position, which is that Jews are simply another tribe without any special revelation of God -- and that Jesus is merely a myth the goyim had to promote in order to coopt ethical monotheism.

But I do want to thank you for this restoration. The widows, addicts, and handicapped were really putting a strain on my resources -- as was my ongoing struggle with my own persistently carnal nature. Now I am free to do whatever I like, as long as I don't hurt anyone. What a relief! Thanks!

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efriden March 7 2008, 15:51:45 UTC
1) The psalmist was a prophet.
2) Scripture is what it is because God willed it so. No man may edit, delete or pick-and-choose. However, all Scripture must be interpreted.
3) Nope. He did what it says.
4a) Because they actually read Scripture, but without the grace of God, no-one can properly understand Scripture?
4b) You tell us!
5a) Exodus 3
5b) Real.
5c) Person = real, narrative = probably mythological, but that doesn't really matter much to me, as the truth of that narrative wouldn't seem dependent upon its superficial factuality.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 15:59:51 UTC
10 bonus points for asserting that factuality can be superficial. I myself am quite factual and quite superficial.

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efriden March 7 2008, 16:23:50 UTC
:-)

But what about 4b)? My curiosity is piqued.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 16:27:48 UTC
I might hold off there for a bit so as not to prejudice other commenters. It is, however, interesting that Jesus is quite the scold when it comes to reading and properly understanding the OT.

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nobleprolet March 7 2008, 15:59:22 UTC
1) That apparently the psalmist had direct revelation of God, ie God spoke to him or he was driven by the Holy Spirit to write what he had in mind.

2) That scripture is true, and that when we don't understand it right, it's not scripture's fault.

3) No, He enabled his disciples to understand the scriptures as they were meant to be understood.

4) Because hebrew scripture is good for us - provided we understand it right. We should thirst for proper understanding of scripture, and proper wisdom in application of it. However, Jesus says "nor" because God is not the same as scripture. With one eye we must look at the bible, with the other at Heaven and the Earth which give testimony to God's power, might and glory.

5) I believe it happened, but I have no idea of how and why. Which kinda makes my faith weak in that regard. But I know that God can do anything, which I know with certitude. So I guess I better take this up in faith and don't fret any longer.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 16:02:41 UTC
You are on a roll lately, brother. May the Lord continue to bless you with fullness of His Spirit.

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nobleprolet March 7 2008, 16:07:27 UTC
Oh thanks much Lenny. You're doing really good too. Would love to attend a bible study you prepared :).

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nobleprolet March 7 2008, 16:06:37 UTC
Oops I gotta repeat # 5.

5) Unfortunately, the devil is real. Fortunately, Jesus is more real. The devil has no truth in Him, and God can drive him away with his little finger. However, we must battle him too, it's part of christian life to assail the devil's strongholds where we can find them, provided we have been prepared and anointed for such tasks by God.

As far as Jonah goes, I think his story is real. I don't know how Jonah could survive in that fish, and science has no answers either. But I know God to be almighty, so he could have all that happened as there is no constraint at all of His power.

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amergina March 7 2008, 17:12:05 UTC
1) The word of God came to the psalmist, as it came to all (true) prophets of God.

2) That scripture holds the Truth and nothing will change that. While we might misinterpret scripture and bend it to our will, reading scripture with the Spirit allows us to bend to God's will.

3)no.

4) The Scadducees bent scripture to their will and ignored the important bits. Jesus wanted people to follow the Truth in scripture, not what the Scadducees had decided they wanted the truth in scripture to be.

5) Real people. (Heck, he knew him in heaven. He even talks to one of them later, in the presence of the disciples.) Matthew 16:4 - person: real. Narrative - mythological (probably) but it doesn't matter, since the truth contained in the myth was a foreshadowing of the Truth of the resurrection.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 17:21:16 UTC
I think there is a typo in your second answer. You said "reading scripture with the Spirit" when I'm sure you meant "reading scripture with intellect and the latest pronouncements of heathen scholars."

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amergina March 7 2008, 17:27:45 UTC
*snort*

Though I have no issue with reading scripture with intellect *and* with the Spirit.

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 17:42:10 UTC
Indeed. But I'm always amused at rejectionists who invoke "intellect" as though it was something they possessed and antimisinterpretationists lacked. In fact, to get momentarily snarky about it, I would venture that from a purely empirical perspective, one could make the case that the antimisinterpretationists among us...well, never mind.

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thehonorableryu March 7 2008, 20:35:23 UTC

The God-Man Jesus was not a liberal or conservative theologian living in the 21st century. God incarnated Himself as a Jew and quoted the Jewish scriptures as a unique source of authority.

You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews."
-Jesus in John 4:22

Two passages can help balance our view.

1.
Matt. 4:1-11 (link)...

Here the Lord, in the status of the Son of Man, shames the devil by quoting scripture. When the devil tries to fight back by using scripture to serve his own agenda, the Lord defeats him further by speaking scripture with the authority that can only come from an uncompromising love of truth. Even the devil can try to use scripture, but the Lord, standing in the place of a sinless man, quoted scripture with authority.

“Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only!’”

2. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me ( ... )

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pastorlenny March 7 2008, 20:45:01 UTC
I don’t believe that every professing Christian who has problems with the Old Testament really cares about the Old Testament. Their real problem is with Jesus, wishing that He was somehow different than He actually is.

Wow. :)

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policraticus March 7 2008, 23:30:49 UTC
But I don’t believe that every professing Christian who has problems with the Old Testament really cares about the Old Testament. Their real problem is with Jesus, wishing that He was somehow different than He actually is.

Powerful stuff.

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thehonorableryu March 8 2008, 00:31:02 UTC
The thing is, too, that we also have to exercise compassion while we tell the truth. :)

When we echo the voice of the Shepherd, it should come from His genuine care and concern for people in their condition before God. If we are full of reproach and criticism but no tears and distress, we should look to the Lord unless we should find ourselves speaking from our own desire to prove others wrong rather than from His heart.

Because, in and of ourselves, none of us is absolute in our love for the Lord and acceptance of His word. The only the man who was absolutely for God's interests is the Lord Jesus!

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