An old meme [SCA]

[chargirlgenius]

I'm a little tired of the old meme that somebody who is not a laurel shouldn't actively want to be a laurel (or any A&S award). It's certainly acceptable behavior to want to be a knight, and to take steps to accomplish that. So why does pursuing the laurel have to be stepped around so carefully, where almost nobody is willing to admit it

Comments

[ladybirdkiller]

really I think it boils down to "it's ok to want it, it's not ok to NEED it." and that applies to any award/peerage including being royality.

[chargirlgenius]

That's a good way of putting it.

[aeddie]

Service Junkies aren't allowed to want to become Pelicans either.

I think the fighter-types get away with it because becoming a knight in shining armor is a goal that we've been taught to strive for since childhood.

[chargirlgenius]

That's an interesting thought. I guess it's maybe ok to say that you want to be the princess, too?

[petranella]

Sorry, no. There have been a couple instances of crying when the fighter was knocked out of Crown and that is "just not done." There are people who watch the fighting. There is also a group who watch the consorts. Fighters may get accused of rhinoing, but if you don't smile big enough when your fighter gets knocked out of Crown you too get commented on.

[chargirlgenius]

Oh, oh yes. Certainly not. Rooting during the tournament is frowned upon, but is it ok to say that "someday I want to be princess"?

[love3angle]

I'm not in the SCA but I do know several costuming laurels, and have seen/heard many a discussion about the laureling process. I've always thought this was a really odd quirk of this award.

I guess I understand the ideal of, "Do what you do well, share it with others, and you will be recognized." But I also think you can't ignore the motivation of ambition and desire of a goal for one's efforts. By trying to divorce the two, it makes the process even more political, at least in concept, because then you can be "punished" for wanting it even if your body of work is deserving.

Definitely an oddity, looking from the outside. :-)

[chargirlgenius]

And that ideal is true. It's easier to be happy if you can be zen about it. But I don't think that it's easier because it's inherently easier, but because so many are told that it's BAD if you're not zen about it.

I think it would be nice if people could actually, you know, *enjoy* the process.

[love3angle]

Totally! And some people are just not built to zen, LOL! It is unreasonable to require it of a Type A, for instance. Different people are motivated by different things. :-)

[stringmonkey]

I was and remain less interested in getting a Laurel than in learning about and making cool stuff. But as long as somebody is happy doing something they enjoy, I don't see why their motivations are any of my business.

[chargirlgenius]

I was pretty zen as well, because I figured that it would be harder for people to hurt me that way. And it was. But you've hit it right on the head. What's the problem??

[cbellfleur]

Then why do people become apprentices if they do not want to advance? Does that mean that all apprentices are ineligible? To continue the fighter analogy, there are some squires who are content to remain squires and others who desire the path to Knighthood. I cannot think of any reason why someone who becomes an apprentice would not aspire to the Laurel.

[alphasarah]

I think it's a question of how you define "advance". Obviously I can only speak to my own experience, but I am apprenticed to a person whose work I respect and admire and whose technical skill I wanted to learn (even an ounce of her technical skill). We have pretty divergent interests actually - she is an outstanding tailor but is more interested in embroidery than I am. I am much more interested in period construction techniques than she is.

I view her role as a sounding board, as an encourager and critique-giver, and as a friend (as well as someone to make kick-ass halloween costumes for my kid). Whether or not being her apprentice will help me one day become a Laurel honestly had nothing to do with my decision to enter into the relationship. At this point she is 1) mostly inactive in the SCA and 2) lives in a different kingdom than I do, but that hasn't changed our relationship (ok, the distance thing has - but I still consider her my teacher.)

Not snarky, just not understanding your point

[elliesam]

I'm missing something here. There are squires who are content to remain squires, and that's Ok, but it's not Ok for an apprentice/protege to be happy there?

[tedeisenstein]

Then why do people become apprentices if they do not want to advance?
To learn. Because the peer's a really nifty person. Because the peer's a good friend. Because you want to learn peer-like behavior without necessarily wanting to be a peer.

I aspire to becoming better at what I do, and to becoming a better person. I don't seek peerage; I seek improvement, and if a peerage comes within reach, it'd be nice - but I don't aspire to it.