Comments | cellio: Shabbat (comparative religion, mostly)

cellio

Shabbat (comparative religion, mostly)

Aug 28, 2004 23:38

Our associate rabbi just came back last week from a month-long training program for chaplains in the air force, and he had a lot to say about that (both last night and this morning). He was, not surprisingly, the only rabbi in their group of 30. There were two priests and the rest were assorted Protestant ministers. Quite a mix, he said.
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judaism: theology, leading services, christianity

Comments 11

hobbitblue August 29 2004, 08:48:38 UTC

I dont comment much on your religious posts tho I do tend to read them avidly and with interest... can you very briefly point out what you mean by transcendant and immanent God as it seems quite a key concept to understanding and I'm a bit hazy, and would rather ask you than go and google.

cellio August 29 2004, 12:10:19 UTC

Transcendance refers to a God who is distant -- unknowable, "way up there in the heavens", unreachable. The master of the world, the divine architect, that sort of thing.

Immanence refers to a God we can personally interact with -- one who hears our prayers, pays attention to our deeds, rewards, punishes, intervenes.

Most religions with a god/gods concept seem to have both properties in varying degrees, though I believe I've heard of ones that are very near the ends of the spectrum.

hobbitblue September 1 2004, 06:27:53 UTC

Thankyou, very clear.

goljerp August 30 2004, 04:48:32 UTC

we were still running pretty late. [....] seeing people leave partway through her part of the service This is something that comes up at my minyan all the time: people are always complaining that we run late, and trying to come up with ideas about how we can "end earlier". (And, of course, people leaving early ( ... )

cellio August 30 2004, 07:27:43 UTC

I think often the problem is not the length per se, but violating people's expectations. If the service usually ends by a certain time, when that time comes around and we're nowhere near done they fidget. Sometimes it really is a scheduling problem, as when people have non-minyan guests coming for lunch or are due elsewhere for lunch or (in liberal congregations) because they have to take the kids to soccer practice after services or some such, but I think sometimes it's just a general sense of impatience that isn't motivated by any particular schedule demand. People expect some degree of consistency from service to service.

freethinkernj August 30 2004, 10:59:42 UTC

I think I have a slight issue with a few of the statements in your post. I don't have an issue with YOU of course! LOL. And the comments you made may not be your actual beliefs. But nevertheless ( ... )

cellio August 30 2004, 20:09:51 UTC

No offense taken, but I'm going to disagree with you on some things. :-) I also invite anyone who is a Jewish athiest (or agnostic) to respond, since I have no personal experience with that situation.

It's more of a belief than a religion.

I'm failing to see the distinction you're making; can you elaborate? I think of a religion as a set of practices that's ultimately founded on a set of beliefs, but that doesn't seem to be what you mean here. (Also, of course there's lots of variation in Christianity, else there wouldn't be all those denominations. Fundamentally, they all believe that Jesus performed some necessary, salvivic sacrifice; all the rest is commentary. :-) )

Early Christians didn't set out to explicitly create a new religion, but Christianity today is pretty different from Christianity then. I was speaking of today's religion(s), not the original form.

Second. I have a VERY hard time understanding or accepting a Jew who does not believe in God. That may well be, but nonetheless, I know people who are adamant in ( ... )

Part 1 freethinkernj August 31 2004, 10:01:30 UTC

Now we're cookin'! LOL!!!

I'm failing to see the distinction you're making; can you elaborate? I think of a religion as a set of practices that's ultimately founded on a set of beliefs, but that doesn't seem to be what you mean here. (Also, of course there's lots of variation in Christianity, else there wouldn't be all those denominations. Fundamentally, they all believe that Jesus performed some necessary, salvivic sacrifice; all the rest is commentary. :-) )You are correct in the premise that religion is a set of practices founded on a set of beliefs. I think my point was to say that Christianity is not ONLY a religion in the same way that you were saying that Judaism is a religion AND a people. In other words, Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism. It is a faith, not a religion. Their faith teaches them that Jesus was/is the long awaited Jewish Messiah. Christianity is just the label for that belief. All the other junk that has been added to it over the years, ie infant baptism, christmas trees, crossing oneself, etc ( ... )

Part 2 freethinkernj August 31 2004, 10:01:50 UTC

How can you be Jewish without being religious? The same way many Christians are "Christian" without really believing -- they go to church on Easter out of habit or family/community obligation, and they celebrate Christmas in a secular fashion, and they never set foot in the building the rest of the year. Just as there are Jews who only show up for the high holy days, who hold Pesach seders in their homes, and who completely ignore the religious side the rest of the year.That is the fundamental mistake. True Christianity is not just showing up to church on Easter and celebrating Christmas. That person is not a Christian. It's the same logic that I am applying to a person who claims to be a Jew without believing in God. A person can't be a Christian without professing faith AND following Jesus in the same way that a Jew can not be a Jew without believing in God. When Ruth converted, she did not say, "Your traditions are my traditions. Your matzah ball soup is my matzah ball soup." She said, "Your God is my God, where you go, I go ( ... )

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