The ending. Is the girl meant to be one of Ten's by-blows or something?! He got stuck in 1969, so perhaps that was one of the ways he found to pass the time!
Well that never even occurred to me! Although I think it would have killed poor Martha... I went with Amy's child, but then that would assume she had one... and how did it end up in 1969... and would mean she shot her own child which, dark!
Seemed to me to be a whole bunch of questions in that ep and not a whole lot else. Which is not necessarily (oh how I hate trying to spell that word) a bad thing... but I'm not going to be in the country for the second half of the season and given that running water and electricity are not going to be a major feature I think the suspense might kill me!
There were good moments but I don't care for the way it cheapened the Doctor's character. I'm more interested in a Doctor that would tear the world apart to help one scared, lost little girl than one that casually forgets her and goes adventuring to suit the plot.
I'm bored with Moff's mindfucks. Too many questions, not enough solid characterisation.
Good moment, yes. It does seem to be a disease of this show that the second half of two-parters are never as good as the first, doesn't it? Maybe that's inherent in the form - the first part is all build up and anticipation which the second can never live up to.
I might edit the post or write another one, but something which is worrying me (as I think it did last series) is the fact that audiences are going to start switching off in droves if things don't start to make sense soon. I read one article last week (in the Grauniad or Telegraph I think) which said that the show risks losing (or possibly even alienating) the casual viewer. I reckon it's at even greater risk after this episode, which didn't really answer amy of the questions set up last week
( ... )
I know exactly what you mean. I'm just not used to watching Doctor Who as this sort of on going questions type drama.
Also yeah, have to agree with you about the Amy/Rory/Doctor stuff. It just felt very artificial. But then it did kind of wrap up well at the end. I just hope that this isn't a running theme. Cause ugh.
I'm just not used to watching Doctor Who as this sort of on going questions type drama.
Neither am I - and to be fair, it wasn't really conceived as one when RTD brought it back. Sure, he had his recurring themes, but they weren't quite so complicated.
Also, I've watched other "continuing" dramas, although I suppose none of them were constructed quite like DW is these days. I was a massive fan of Babylon 5 which had some fantastically conceived plot arcs, but I don't remember finding them as frustrating as this!
But in the "old days", the stories were 4 or 6 parters and shorter eps. They were written that way, rather than as a season of single stories with an arc. There was continuity, but not arcs as such.
I'm beginning to think the old way was better. Not that I've watched this week's yet, and all the reaction to it is putting me off. Whereas I used to be a fan, I've dropped down the list to below "casual viewer" to "really couldn't care less if it's going to be this much of a hassle".
I've been watching some old (Troughton & Pertwee) DW lately and while they ended on a cliffhanger each week (many of which turned into total fake-outs!) the stories mostly progressed linearly and what you learned one week was relevant the next and so on.
Things are certainly different now, and I don't object to the format of "let's do this and then leave it to stew for a few weeks before we pick it up again" - Fringe is doing that brilliantly as have other shows. Fringe is also quite complex in its overall storyling and has been developing its own mythology for the last three seasons, and that hasn't put me off. So I can't work out what it is about DW as it is now that means that it's harder for me to swallow. Unless its that Fringe manages to make sense (within its own premise) and doesn't dick around with the viewers to quite the same extent.
I do try to be open minded about this - I had problems with some of the things in S5 and am always extremely wary of coming across as a DT fangirl who can't let go (and while I am a DT fangirl, I've been watching DW since I was a kid and I know how it works) - but while I do enjoy the show, I can't just gloss over some of this stuff, you know? I have a great admiration for SM and I think he's a terrific writer; he's witty and a bit naughty and writes great dialogue, but that can't hide the fact that some of this stuff just doesn't make sense. I don't just mean in the context of two episodes, because I'm including S5 and the Xmas special in that as well
( ... )
We're left with even more questions than we were left with last week
I did enjoy the episode, but this season long puzzle is the sort of thing that committed fans adore but casual viewers and young children might not be quite so keen on. It also makes standalone episodes seem a bit forced if they don't connect to the seasonal arc.
I enjoyed it - but I've discovered that I pretty much always have that reaction to a Moffat episode and then half an hour later, I'm thinking "what?!" and realising that it just doesn't hang together. Moffat is like the Silence - when we're watching the episode it's all fine, but when we turn away, it doesn't make sense!
As I've said upthread, I really do have concerns that the casual viewers who make up the bulk of the audience will be switched off by the lack of any real conclusions in this episode. I'm not saying that Moffat's ambitions aren't to be lauded... just that perhaps the general viewing public isn't ready for them.
I haven't really had a chance to chat to the kids yet about what they thought, There was enough in it to keep them entertained - but I think that while most of the complexities passed Abigail by, Elinor is now old enough to be getting confused by them.
You know, fine with the River/Eleven romance/whatever. But could SM please stop throwing he flirty anvils at me? Christ on crutches, I think I got whiplash dodging them all.
Are we to assume that since this was River's last kiss with the Doctor, the next time she sees him will be in The Library?
I agree with the sentiment that SM is going to lose viewers if he keeps teasing without giving any real answers soon. It's just not fair to the viewer, who in good faith is willing to play along for awhile. But if he abuses their trust too many times, I wouldn't blame the fans for checking out and watching something else.
Are we to assume that since this was River's last kiss with the Doctor, the next time she sees him will be in The Library?
While I was under the impression that's what Moffat wants us to think, if it is, he's contradicted himself. In her death scene in Forest of the Dead, River talks about how the last time she'd seen him (before she went to the Library), he'd turned up on her doorstep in a new suit, with a new haircut and they'd gone to the singing towers of wherever and he'd cried... (because he knew what was coming). Maybe we're supposed to believe they didn't snog on that occasion.
I dunno. This whole, "meeting in reverse order" seems too contrived and neat to be coincidence. It would also mean that Moffat has forgotten his own continuity and he doesn't strike me as the type to do that.
Spoilers and speculation abound, as they did last series... but I'm not sure I can be bovvered this time around :(
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Well that never even occurred to me! Although I think it would have killed poor Martha... I went with Amy's child, but then that would assume she had one... and how did it end up in 1969... and would mean she shot her own child which, dark!
Seemed to me to be a whole bunch of questions in that ep and not a whole lot else. Which is not necessarily (oh how I hate trying to spell that word) a bad thing... but I'm not going to be in the country for the second half of the season and given that running water and electricity are not going to be a major feature I think the suspense might kill me!
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I'm bored with Moff's mindfucks. Too many questions, not enough solid characterisation.
LOL at the Nixon tapes though!
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I might edit the post or write another one, but something which is worrying me (as I think it did last series) is the fact that audiences are going to start switching off in droves if things don't start to make sense soon. I read one article last week (in the Grauniad or Telegraph I think) which said that the show risks losing (or possibly even alienating) the casual viewer. I reckon it's at even greater risk after this episode, which didn't really answer amy of the questions set up last week ( ... )
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Too many questions and no real answers this week, I think. Again, with the two-part-itis where the first part is great and the second is a let down :(
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Also yeah, have to agree with you about the Amy/Rory/Doctor stuff. It just felt very artificial. But then it did kind of wrap up well at the end. I just hope that this isn't a running theme. Cause ugh.
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Neither am I - and to be fair, it wasn't really conceived as one when RTD brought it back. Sure, he had his recurring themes, but they weren't quite so complicated.
Also, I've watched other "continuing" dramas, although I suppose none of them were constructed quite like DW is these days. I was a massive fan of Babylon 5 which had some fantastically conceived plot arcs, but I don't remember finding them as frustrating as this!
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I'm beginning to think the old way was better. Not that I've watched this week's yet, and all the reaction to it is putting me off. Whereas I used to be a fan, I've dropped down the list to below "casual viewer" to "really couldn't care less if it's going to be this much of a hassle".
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Things are certainly different now, and I don't object to the format of "let's do this and then leave it to stew for a few weeks before we pick it up again" - Fringe is doing that brilliantly as have other shows. Fringe is also quite complex in its overall storyling and has been developing its own mythology for the last three seasons, and that hasn't put me off.
So I can't work out what it is about DW as it is now that means that it's harder for me to swallow.
Unless its that Fringe manages to make sense (within its own premise) and doesn't dick around with the viewers to quite the same extent.
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I often wonder the same!
I do try to be open minded about this - I had problems with some of the things in S5 and am always extremely wary of coming across as a DT fangirl who can't let go (and while I am a DT fangirl, I've been watching DW since I was a kid and I know how it works) - but while I do enjoy the show, I can't just gloss over some of this stuff, you know?
I have a great admiration for SM and I think he's a terrific writer; he's witty and a bit naughty and writes great dialogue, but that can't hide the fact that some of this stuff just doesn't make sense. I don't just mean in the context of two episodes, because I'm including S5 and the Xmas special in that as well ( ... )
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I did enjoy the episode, but this season long puzzle is the sort of thing that committed fans adore but casual viewers and young children might not be quite so keen on. It also makes standalone episodes seem a bit forced if they don't connect to the seasonal arc.
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As I've said upthread, I really do have concerns that the casual viewers who make up the bulk of the audience will be switched off by the lack of any real conclusions in this episode. I'm not saying that Moffat's ambitions aren't to be lauded... just that perhaps the general viewing public isn't ready for them.
I haven't really had a chance to chat to the kids yet about what they thought, There was enough in it to keep them entertained - but I think that while most of the complexities passed Abigail by, Elinor is now old enough to be getting confused by them.
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Are we to assume that since this was River's last kiss with the Doctor, the next time she sees him will be in The Library?
I agree with the sentiment that SM is going to lose viewers if he keeps teasing without giving any real answers soon. It's just not fair to the viewer, who in good faith is willing to play along for awhile. But if he abuses their trust too many times, I wouldn't blame the fans for checking out and watching something else.
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While I was under the impression that's what Moffat wants us to think, if it is, he's contradicted himself. In her death scene in Forest of the Dead, River talks about how the last time she'd seen him (before she went to the Library), he'd turned up on her doorstep in a new suit, with a new haircut and they'd gone to the singing towers of wherever and he'd cried... (because he knew what was coming). Maybe we're supposed to believe they didn't snog on that occasion.
I dunno. This whole, "meeting in reverse order" seems too contrived and neat to be coincidence. It would also mean that Moffat has forgotten his own continuity and he doesn't strike me as the type to do that.
Spoilers and speculation abound, as they did last series... but I'm not sure I can be bovvered this time around :(
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No kidding. Too much effort with a pittance of a payoff.
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