Nope. Still can't get my head around this.

[caz963]

Blink was on telly last night, and as a result the girls wanted to watch the S5 Angels two-parter.

Comments

[annissag]

Wow! This entry dovetails quite nicely into what I posted just now. :)

I couldn't agree more, really. I loved the Weeping Angels in "Blink." They were so delightfully terrifying. But Moffat contradicted his own mythology in the S5 two-parter, and it really ruined the monsters for me. "Loneliest creatures in the Universe," except when they get together for the big Weeping Angels convention.

Like you, I still genuinely enjoy the show. I just don't enjoy it as much as I used to. I'm looking forward to excellent episodes in S6, though.

[caz963]

still genuinely enjoy the show. I just don't enjoy it as much as I used to.

I don't think I've felt like this before about a TV show - but then I don't think there's one like this, that's been going for so long and which has therefore gone through so many changes.

[hooloovoo_42]

YM,YA.

[hooloovoo_42]

You're me, you are! We are of one mind.

[zinke]

OMG I have actually seen these episodes! Which means I get to say something! Except...I don't really have much of an opinion?

Honestly, that's been my reaction to all the epsiodes of s5 I've watched thus far. They're just kind of...there. Not great, not terrible. As you said, I enjoyed watching them at the time, but there isn't a one of them I'd feel the need to rewatch once, let along several times. And that's very different from RTD's Who; I very much enjoy pulling out the random episode to re-watch, even if I've already seen it twenty times before.

[caz963]

Yours isn't an uncommon reaction - at least not among the people on my flist. I liked S5, and I think Matt is great as the Doctor - but it's a different show and that's how I approach it now.

I'm looking forward to finding out who River really is in S6 though :)

[zinke]

You mean she isn't his wife? (I've not seen anything past...'Amy's Choice' I think?)

[caz963]

Moff has said several times that it's not that simple... but as we all know, he lies ;-)

[topaz_eyes]

My fanwank about the Weeping Angel retcon is that Moffat's never written adversaries with evil motives before, so he needed an unsympathetic--even simplistic--villain for the Doctor to combat. The acts of the clockwork robots, the Weeping Angels from "Blink," and the Vashta Nerada were about survival. The Nanytes, the Empty Child and CAL weren't evil at all, just misunderstood.

Moffat could have included an explanation as to why the Angels changed their M.O. Maybe proximity to the Crack altered their time-space ability or something so they had to resort to killing? That would've made more sense. Even a throwaway line would have sufficed.

I really hope I'm not coning across as the sort of person who watches a TV show just to slag it offYou are nowhere near that kind of person, trust me. :-) Moffat's Who is enjoyable. Moffat simply doesn't address themes that I personally find interesting, so I have no real motive to explore beneath its surface. (Well, that's not quite true. I'm intrigued by the idea brought up in "The

[caz963]

Hm. That's not an explanation I've come across before. I suppose, given the huge popular and critical success of Blink, Moffat wanted to bring the angels back because they were so recognisable and it was a good way of linking to past series - and also a good way of bringing in viewers who might have drifted away. As you say, he could have just put in a line or two of explanation - but he doesn't tend to do that, does he? It seems to me that there have been quite a few times where he could have put in a throwaway line of explanation - and while I like being credited with the intelligence to work things out for myself, there are some things which need it, and some which don't.

I'm intrigued by the idea brought up in "The Pandorica Opens," how the story is highly dependent on who's telling itThat's something I'm interested in, too, but I suspect that it may be too complex a theme for further explanation given the direction he's taking the show. His plots are complex, and he likes his timey-wimey, but some of the underlying themes are

[topaz_eyes]

while I like being credited with the intelligence to work things out for myself, there are some things which need it, and some which don't.

This. Changing rules mid-game is definitely something that needs explaining.

some of the underlying themes are quite simplistic - if that makes any sense at all.

Yep, it makes perfect sense to me. I do believe "The story depends on who tells it" is a subset of his overall "things aren't always as they appear" theme. But I'm not sure why I find the underlying themes simplistic. Or maybe the themes seem simplistic because they go unexamined in the text. Overthinking It has an essay about themes in Season 5. It picks out the themes of S5 and how they affected the plot and character arcs. It's interesting reading.

[promethia_tenk]

Hey, here from who_daily :)

Generally, I've gotta say, my love for Moff's writing is a thing only slightly less intense than my love for oxygen, but even I will admit that Flesh and Stone doesn't hold together all that well. It does have a lot of great scenes to it, but they don't necessarily cohere into a satisfying whole. I think Moffat is actually fairly bad at straightforward linear storytelling, which he usually compensates for by not telling linear stories. In this case, though, he stuck himself with following a single group of people along a single plotline, and I don't know that all the successive bits really link together well. (And, yeah, he pretty much ruined the Angels.)

I do quite like the role these episodes play within the season as a whole, but taken by themselves, I'm with you: they're something of a let-down.

[caz963]

*waves* - good to see you!

I think Moffat is a fabulous writer - he writes terrific dialogue and as you say, can construct a convoluted plot like nobody's business. I suppose part of my problem is that I get frustrated sometimes because he's SO good, it's kinda annoying when he drops the ball. Of course, I'm nothing but an armchair critic and couldn't do what he does in a Month of Sundays ;)

IMO, the best part of these episodes is undoubtedly River and the interpaly between her and Eleven.