US nuns facing Vatican scrutiny

[hagazusa]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/us/02nuns.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&th&emc=th

Thought this article might provide food for discussion.

ETA: some of the comments are interesting also. nuns

Comments

[ilpostino]

I always wondered about reiki... it confused me to see it practiced by Catholics.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[hagazusa]

What about other alternative medicine such as acupuncture, reflexology, etc? I'm wondering why they singled out reiki.

Hildegard von Bingen healed with crystals and gemstones. ;)

[ilpostino]

acupunture and reflexology can be argued that it isn't so much "energy work" as manipulating the nervous system directly. reiki, crytal/gem/pyramid/circle, etc. doesn't have that luxury.

[hagazusa]

Hildegard would not be amused!

[stonecold4jesus]

First of all, I would like to correct the New York Times and say that the people they are talking about are not nuns. Nuns refer uniquely to cloistered religious, of which members of orders with an active apostolate are not. I did a quick google search and found this, which might explain it a little better. Sorry about that; it may not have been necessary, but I always want to correct people who confuse sisters and nuns. I hope I was loving enough

[rest_in_thee]

Nun doesn't necessarily refer to cloister. For the most part, the primary difference is that sisters take simple vows, nuns take solemn vows.

Aside from that I agree with much of your comment.z

[stonecold4jesus]

If what you're saying is true (which I'm not outright doubting that it is) then I'm just very confused because I've heard from many sources (including in person from a Franciscan sister) that the term 'nun' only refers to women religious who observe strict papal enclosure. I've also heard from multiple (non-cloistered) communities and in person from the same sister that sisters have the option of taking solemn vows. Sorry if I've sounded a little confrontational or anything, I'm just very confused by such simple things and this subject is very close to my heart and I was hoping to prevent further confusion for others =(

[napoleonofnerds]

Honestly? In context people tend to use them interchangeably. I know in the Dominican order than not all nuns are cloistered and that the distinction is type of vows, but I imagine many orders do it different ways, as they do all things.

[rest_in_thee]

The only nuns making a stink about it are the ones who need to be dealt with anyway. This is good for the Church, and it will ultimately be good for our nuns. Hopefully a few of the orders will either be brought into line or dissolved altogether, as there are too many exhibiting a strong spirit of disobedience and a lack of recognition of their role in the Church.

[napoleonofnerds]

Because that worked so well for the Jesuits? And like the Jesuits, I don't see orders of women religious doing anything wrong.

[contemplatio]

The Jesuits *are* an order of women religious...

[Oh now don't be getting your scapulars in a scrunch, that was a joke for Michael and EJ.]

[napoleonofnerds]

Rome shouldn't be doing a visitation. This is the domain of the American bishops either collectively or within their dioceses. I don't know where we got the idea that the Pope had to be an absolute monarch, but it was never historically true and I don't think there's a pressing need for it now.

I also don't think there's a need for women religious to be "brought into line" or "taught a lesson." As I said, if there was it'd be up to the bishops, but I don't think anyone can point to a meaningful problem other than women religious are sometimes inconvenient. So are lots of people, and if the Church can't be grown up about dealing with that, they should learn how.

[hagazusa]

I agree with you.

[rest_in_thee]

Yeah, supporting heresy, schism and being openly defiant and disobedient are clearly nothing but "inconvenience." Right...

[napoleonofnerds]

Who does that Michael? All women religious? Significant numbers of women religious? A specific order of women religious? Are the disobedient to people they vowed to obey, or to people who assert authority the law doesn't give them?

It seems to me a few fringe religious do these things, as they do in every community on Earth (Matthew Fox was a Dominican, Martin Luther an Augustinian) and that their effect is, in fact, to be little more than annoying, and certainly small potatoes compared to the normal uses of an Apostolic visitation. It seems like this tends to create an opportunity to vilify lots of women who do perfectly good work well within the pale of their vows simply because some people in the Church don't like it.

I don't like what some religious (and a certain personal prelature) do either, but I don't see why the modern church has such trouble accepting the legitimacy of diversity.