All Graces

[badsede]

I'm sure that many of you have heard the news that 5 cardinals have petitioned the Pope to make an ex cathedra pronouncement declaring a fifth Marian dogma, that Mary is Co-Redemptrix and Mediatrix of All Graces.

annabellissima and I spent yestserday evening doing a bunch of web-reading on the subject. We're both ok with the title of Co-Redemptrix when

Comments

[catholic_heart]

Thanks for putting all the time into this. It was very thoughtful. I honestly don't know how I feel about it. I appreciate all the points everyone has made so far, it's given me lots to think about.

[catholic_heart]

Just one thought regarding your first notion, that Mary's constant intercession on behalf of the Church would make her Mediatrix of all Graces within the Church, and that the only way she could be Mediatrix of all Graces for the world would be if she is the spiritual mother of all the world. I'm just thinking, since we do proclaim her to be Queen of Heaven and Earth (though that not being a dogmatic proclamation, I don't think), and her queenship is tied directly to her motherhood (since the mother of the king in Jewish tradition is herself the queen), then would this not also make her Mother of all the world? Just a thought...

[napoleonofnerds]

It would, but at the point at which we're speculating based on titles and guesswork over something that somebody only recently came up with, aren't we better off without the proclamation, even if it's something worth believing privately?

[catholic_heart]

Yeah, that's a good point. I agree.

[sistermeg]

I didn't realize this had been brought up again. I am going to date the first time this was brought up to 95 or 96, because I remember writing a term paper on it in high school (can you believe what a dork I was? and that I didn't know from the outset that I would end up a theologian?) and my final thesis was right in line with yours - the concept is fine, but raising it to dogma would be damaging to inter-religious dialogue, and to be quite frank, damaging to the reputation of the Church in a manner that is not out-weighed by the benefits of such a proclamation.

[badsede]

This is true. How long did we have the Feast of the Immaculate Conception before we had the formally defined dogma? How far back does the tradition of the Assumption go?

This, on the other hand, does not even seem to have majority support, much less that kind of support. I think that is important, and why an ex cathedra statement would be necessary. There isn't support for this in the Ordinary Magesterium - a few saints and a few Encyclicals does not "throughout time and place" make - and it was shot down at Vatican II - there was the suggestion to make Lumen Gentium include "All Graces" but there was no support for it.

[ilpostino]

would the terms "sub-redemptrix" and "sub-mediatrix" be more appropriate for her since she isn't Jesus?

[badsede]

It might. This gets to the heart of the problem. At least in English, the "equal" meaning of co- is more prominent than the "with" meaning. Therefore, even though the fundamental doctrine may be sound, the title does not seem to connect sufficiently with the doctrine, but rather seems to point to another belief entirely.

This is, I think, one of the fundamental weaknesses of this movement. The other Marian Dogmas are belief-focused, but these seem to be title-focused. By focusing on the title, the fundamental belief is eclipsed, and the misleading nature of the title is just augmented.