Speech is Free. Tax? Not so muchreskAugust 31 2007, 15:53:13 UTC
1. Free Speech -- I see no reason for her to be barred from saying what she's saying. She wouldn't have gotten in trouble if she'd said it while accepting an award for Best Hip Hop Video. Srsly. Over 90% of human beings believe in a higher power. Thank him/her/it all you want. You have every right to do so.
2. Fair Tax -- I'll let k_sui handle this one, as he's the expert. Sounds like a friggin' train wreck to me, but I'm curious to know more.
Re: Speech is Free. Tax? Not so muchcaspian_xAugust 31 2007, 15:56:47 UTC
1. Awesome. As much as I love to argue, agreement makes me ridiculously happy.
2. It's just so refreshingly interesting. An intelligent, simple tax system instead of the 63,000 pages of tax code we have today. I don't know if it's realistic and feasible, but the more I read the more I like it.
Another huge point I forgot to mention above: it's transparent. The tax code is so complicated and tweaked so often we don't know who's getting what. If it's a constant national rate, we'll see exactly when that is raised.
"Free Tax" smacks of propagandak_suiAugust 31 2007, 16:51:45 UTC
The fair tax is regressive which means those who are poorer pay a higher percentage of their income to the fisc. Not even you, my conservative friend, can walk by that without doing a doubletake. Additionally, while they reel people in with thoughts of a flat 23% tax -- it's a sales ploy. Study after study has shown that once you get above 23%, political support for switching drops drastically. The actual rate to do everything we do now would be closer to 38% according to those wild-eyed socialists at the Hoover Institution.
Finally -- I would be happy to send you the 100 pages or so of the Code to you that actually deal with personal income tax and deferred compensation. It would leave aside the vast majority of the Code which deal with corporate income tax, partnership tax, taxation of cooperatives, taxation of trusts, the gift tax, estate tax and administration of the Code.
Re: "Free Tax" smacks of propagandacaspian_xAugust 31 2007, 16:59:06 UTC
It's progressive, not regressive. The wealthy pay more because they buy more expensive goods. Those who spend at the the poverty line pay nothing because they get a pre-paid rebate (prebate) every month. See the text pasted below. Unless you can explain to me why it's wrong and it's actually regressive, I just can't believe that.
And, yes, I'm merely parroting the Fair Tax website, but "corporate tax" is a lie. No corporation pays taxes. They pass the cost along to the consumer and the employees. You and I end up paying those taxes, but there's no way to track it because they are hidden costs. The Fair Tax is at least transparent.
12. Is the FairTax fair?Yes, the FairTax is fair, and in fact, much fairer than the income tax. Wealthy people spend more money than other individuals. They buy expensive cars, big houses, and yachts. They buy filet mignon instead of hamburger, fine wine instead of beer, designer dresses, and expensive jewelry. The FairTax taxes them on these purchases. If, however, they use their money to
( ... )
As Voltaire once maybe said, "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
I had not heard about the valedictorian case and I was actually a little afraid you were going to be arguing against free speech for some reason in here. But no, we're on the same side in this - perhaps if she'd said "you're all going to rot in hell if you don't accept Jesus" that could be construed as offensive and thus requiring an apology.
I haven't clicked on the link but I gather what she said wasn't quite so harsh. If that's the case, it's just a knee-jerk reaction by the school administrators in one direction to avoid backlash from another direction.
I think in general society is to afraid to offend people. While I don't think it's great to purposely offend, it's bound to happen. Can't we all just agree that we're all going to be offended now and then, suck it up, and move on?
I've noticed that too - there's move of a proactive movement these days to hush things that could be offensive, even if it doesn't offend the person doing the hushing, without even necessarily checking with the potential offendee if it's really offensive. I don't really have any examples, but it just generally goes with the whole 'jumping on the bandwagon' thing, like if there's some minority that seems to be getting ribbed, others outside that minority seem to be the first to stand up against the ribbing
( ... )
My friend who was a valedictorian in high school started his speech by sticking his hand deep into his pocket, fiddling around, and muttering "excuse me while I whip this out," ala Blazing Saddles. No ramifications, of course!
Penis jokes are perfectly okay, but talk about Jesus and it's all over.
I'm with you 100%. You aren't as much of a nutjob as you think. Just that LJ people tend to be liberal pinko commies. *grin*
Anyway, one of the problems with Free Speech today is that Americans have decided they have a fundamental right to not be presented with any material they find offensive. They have a RIGHT to NOT be offended. And I'm sorry, but that just isn't a right. People should make an EFFORT to not offend one another, but it is anyone's duty to ensure that they never offend someone else. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, no matter how offensive, ignorant, or foul the opinion might be.
And tax... I read somewhere that the Government spends a significant portion of the money it collects in taxes... collecting taxes. I have to pay someone a good chunk of money every year to figure out my taxes for me. Not because I'm stupid, but because it's JUST that complex. Simple = Cheaper = better for everyone.
Agreed. You don't have the right not to be offended. That's what free speech is about. I hear a ton of stuff I don't agree with, but it's not my right to get those people to apologize. It's their right to speak it. Free speech is a two-way street.
And the simplicity is what I find so great. If you had a private business that spent a shit ton of money on simply collecting their revenues, the sales/collection department would be revamped to make it simpler. Hell, they've done that in my business.
Not sure. I think both. It does make a distinction between used and new goods. So used car = tax-free. But I would think services would be taxed as well.
The website is pretty nice and they have a good FAQ if you have time for a perusal.
Our Valedictorian had the best speech. It lasted all of 40 seconds, and allow me to paraphrase here.
"Well, we're finished here, and now we'll all go on to work or school, which are pretty much the same thing...I'm done."
After the class president's 15 minute speech wherein she said the word "scrapbook" every 5 seconds, he recieved a most excellent response.
As for her speech, I think the principal's major problem was likely to have been the fact that she changed her speech and didn't let him know in advance. I would also say judging from the snippet of the speech, that she went a bit beyond simply thanking Jesus, and was actively proselytizing...which is apparently what people were complaining to the school district about anyway. It's likely the district staff who had to approve speeches didn't want to look like they condone any particular religion.
I don't think it was worse than what was printed. Newspapers try to make it as big of a story as possible so if it was worse, they'd probably have printed it. She only had 30 seconds. And even if she was proselytizing, why is that not protected speech?
I agree she should have to apologize for breaking the rules and changing the speech, but not apologize for the content of her actual speech.
And, not to be nitpicky, but they are REQUIRED to condone her religion. They can't give it preferential treatment, but they are REQUIRED to condone it. ;)
Well, that's what I had meant, at any rate. To let her tell everyone about how great Jesus is and that they should read up on what he did for them would make it seem like they're giving her religion preferential treatment, which they weren't, due to the fact she didn't get anything approved. And really, as it's their stage, they do get to decide what gets said on it :P
Do minors get any right to free speech? My school always tried to grind into us that we didn't have shit for rights until we were 18, which I always thought was kind of stupid.
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2. Fair Tax -- I'll let k_sui handle this one, as he's the expert. Sounds like a friggin' train wreck to me, but I'm curious to know more.
Reply
2. It's just so refreshingly interesting. An intelligent, simple tax system instead of the 63,000 pages of tax code we have today. I don't know if it's realistic and feasible, but the more I read the more I like it.
Another huge point I forgot to mention above: it's transparent. The tax code is so complicated and tweaked so often we don't know who's getting what. If it's a constant national rate, we'll see exactly when that is raised.
Reply
Finally -- I would be happy to send you the 100 pages or so of the Code to you that actually deal with personal income tax and deferred compensation. It would leave aside the vast majority of the Code which deal with corporate income tax, partnership tax, taxation of cooperatives, taxation of trusts, the gift tax, estate tax and administration of the Code.
Reply
And, yes, I'm merely parroting the Fair Tax website, but "corporate tax" is a lie. No corporation pays taxes. They pass the cost along to the consumer and the employees. You and I end up paying those taxes, but there's no way to track it because they are hidden costs. The Fair Tax is at least transparent.
From the FAQ:
12. Is the FairTax fair?Yes, the FairTax is fair, and in fact, much fairer than the income tax. Wealthy people spend more money than other individuals. They buy expensive cars, big houses, and yachts. They buy filet mignon instead of hamburger, fine wine instead of beer, designer dresses, and expensive jewelry. The FairTax taxes them on these purchases. If, however, they use their money to ( ... )
Reply
I had not heard about the valedictorian case and I was actually a little afraid you were going to be arguing against free speech for some reason in here. But no, we're on the same side in this - perhaps if she'd said "you're all going to rot in hell if you don't accept Jesus" that could be construed as offensive and thus requiring an apology.
I haven't clicked on the link but I gather what she said wasn't quite so harsh. If that's the case, it's just a knee-jerk reaction by the school administrators in one direction to avoid backlash from another direction.
Reply
I think in general society is to afraid to offend people. While I don't think it's great to purposely offend, it's bound to happen. Can't we all just agree that we're all going to be offended now and then, suck it up, and move on?
Reply
Reply
My friend who was a valedictorian in high school started his speech by sticking his hand deep into his pocket, fiddling around, and muttering "excuse me while I whip this out," ala Blazing Saddles. No ramifications, of course!
Penis jokes are perfectly okay, but talk about Jesus and it's all over.
Reply
Anyway, one of the problems with Free Speech today is that Americans have decided they have a fundamental right to not be presented with any material they find offensive. They have a RIGHT to NOT be offended. And I'm sorry, but that just isn't a right. People should make an EFFORT to not offend one another, but it is anyone's duty to ensure that they never offend someone else. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion, no matter how offensive, ignorant, or foul the opinion might be.
And tax... I read somewhere that the Government spends a significant portion of the money it collects in taxes... collecting taxes. I have to pay someone a good chunk of money every year to figure out my taxes for me. Not because I'm stupid, but because it's JUST that complex. Simple = Cheaper = better for everyone.
Reply
Agreed. You don't have the right not to be offended. That's what free speech is about. I hear a ton of stuff I don't agree with, but it's not my right to get those people to apologize. It's their right to speak it. Free speech is a two-way street.
And the simplicity is what I find so great. If you had a private business that spent a shit ton of money on simply collecting their revenues, the sales/collection department would be revamped to make it simpler. Hell, they've done that in my business.
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The website is pretty nice and they have a good FAQ if you have time for a perusal.
Reply
"Well, we're finished here, and now we'll all go on to work or school, which are pretty much the same thing...I'm done."
After the class president's 15 minute speech wherein she said the word "scrapbook" every 5 seconds, he recieved a most excellent response.
As for her speech, I think the principal's major problem was likely to have been the fact that she changed her speech and didn't let him know in advance. I would also say judging from the snippet of the speech, that she went a bit beyond simply thanking Jesus, and was actively proselytizing...which is apparently what people were complaining to the school district about anyway. It's likely the district staff who had to approve speeches didn't want to look like they condone any particular religion.
Reply
I agree she should have to apologize for breaking the rules and changing the speech, but not apologize for the content of her actual speech.
And, not to be nitpicky, but they are REQUIRED to condone her religion. They can't give it preferential treatment, but they are REQUIRED to condone it. ;)
Reply
Do minors get any right to free speech? My school always tried to grind into us that we didn't have shit for rights until we were 18, which I always thought was kind of stupid.
Reply
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