Work trip to Germany was quite good. The travelling was easy, as was spending three days in the company of people from work (one from my office, one from one of the German offices
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my colleague was planning to go to Saudi Arabia and needed an abaya.
Eek. Yeah, that makes sense.
I wasn't sure about clothes -- in that case that's what my manager said to do, so it's OK in this case, but I don't know if it's normal or not. IIRC if it's clothes you could wear outside work or for other jobs (eg. shirt and tie), it's your responsibility, even if you don't want them, because that's just a normal part of having a job. And if it's safety clothes (as in this case) your employer should buy them, (I think). And if it's a uniform, it's not clear -- it seems like the employer isn't required to buy them, but probably should be, and sometimes does.
AFAICT, my manager will just automatically sign off on anything reasonable, and would rather I didn't worry about it. But I wish I had a clearer idea of "reasonable" in advance. so I can set a good precedent now in case I end up expensing many things in future.
Our work policy is that alcohol is not accepted even when it's cheaper than water/cola, whereas all soft drinks are fine, and ditto desserts. This slightly makes no sense when you're working somewhere like Malawi where the beer is safe, cheap and plentiful whereas the tap water really, really isn't, but there you go. Alcohol is OK if it's part of entertaining a guest/collaborator. There are upper limits on breakfast/lunch/dinner/refreshments but they're high enough that you tend to be fine as long as you're not taking the mickey - and could probably justify higher charges if, for example, you were eating at a safe but pricey hotel in a dangerous city and it wasn't practical to leave the compound to look for a cheaper place
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I can see the reasons for "no alcohol"; if it's allowed it encourages a minority of people to bend the rules to get it as often as possible, and may look questionable on audits later. But it's bad if that's the only thing you *can* drink. And feels a bit unfair if some jobs, expensing large amounts of alcohol is necessary because "entertaining" is part of the job
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I guess that's why a lot of places have a policy of per-diems instead where you're just given a flat £250 per day when abroad or whatever (the EU publish a list of their rates by countries) - it means you can afford to cover your costs, or you can afford an up-market hotel, but not necessarily both. In the past I understand this approach with some civil servants resulted in them living in a youth hostel or similar for most of the visit, then throwing an absolutely wild party at the end - which I can see might be viewed poorly, although doesn't cost the employer any more than a mid-range OK hotel and normal living consistently during the duration, so
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I often stay away from home for four consecutive nights and on the first night I go to a supermarket and spend my evening meal allowance on something simple like bread and cheese along with fruit, chocolate, sparkling water, fruit teas, all the things I would normally have in my own home and which count, for me, as expenses in order to be able to get "in" late and be able to snack or have a drink. No one has any problem with it and I'm not the only one who does it.
Everyone has said all this already, but clothes, boggle, but actually if work's told you to and they're safety kit for on site, that makes sense. Alcohol, never ever ever for civil service / NHS, but your work should have a policy.
Also, some offices have a per-dium, which can be 'whatever you do when you're abroad, we give you 25 pounds a day for food and drink etc, no questions asked' or 'whatever you spend when you're abroad, you can't spend more than 25 pounds a day on food, it's an upper cap, but we'll only pay you for what you did spend' Worth checking, because it's clearly a guideline as to what _they_ think is reasonable.
Yeah, that's been the common response. See comment to woodpijn below -- maybe it's not so much "what's normal to expense" but "what's normal for work to pay for?" And yes, my work SHOULD have a policy, but there doesn't seem to be anything that actually reflects reality.
Also, some offices have a per-dium,Yeah, IIRC we don't officially, but we're advised to use the German office's domestic per-dium as a guideline when in Germany (which we were broadly in line with
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I think a per-dium is a good policy, because it's simpler and fairer. If you're cash strapped, it's a salary perk for 'going away from home' which doesn't seem evil, and if you're wanting to live the high life in new and exciting foreign cities, you don't have that weird 'I want to buy 15 pounds of steak, but I'm only comfortable expensing 10 pounds on dinner, I can't get a receipt for 2/3rds of my steak' problem
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If you're cash strapped, it's a salary perk for 'going away from home' which doesn't seem evil, and if you're wanting to live the high life in new and exciting foreign cities, you don't have that weird 'I want to buy 15 pounds of steak, but I'm only comfortable expensing 10 pounds on dinner, I can't get a receipt for 2/3rds of my steak' problem.
Yeah, that definitely seems reasonable.
I think is the start of a slippery slope that means anyone who takes more money in wages than the bare minimum they need not to starve and have a roof over their head is somehow doing something 'wrong'.I think I see what you mean, but I don't think that's quite what I meant. If expenses are routinely approved up to $20, and everyone expenses exactly $20, rather than sometimes less, that suggests that they feel they can't afford NOT to, either because they're coming out behind financially and need to compensate, or because everyone else is getting the maximum perks possible, and they feel like a chump for not doing so. As in, it's a symptom of unclear
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The question isn't what's reasonable or normal, but what your company thinks is OK, which may be more, or less, than what's actually reasonable. The one time I went on a business trip, the company would pay for meals but not tips, and this was to the US, where large tips are pretty much compulsory. (Although most evenings I just ended up grabbing a burger from a fast food place on the way back from work, so that I could get to bed by 2am UK time rather than 6am.)
I've never heard of expensing clothes - I'd expect normal business clothes to be bought out of your own pocket, and specialist safety clothes to be supplied directly to you by the company.
The question isn't what's reasonable or normal, but what your company thinks is OK
Yeah. There's theoretically a policy, but I don't think it represents reality. So probably, anything halfway reasonable is fine, but I'd rather say "this is what I thought reasonable of my own judgement[1]" and if they have any clarifications they want to make, they should have made them in advance. But I didn't buy anything expensive -- if beer _wasn't_ covered, I'd have been happy to buy local beer out of my own pocket :)
the company would pay for meals but not tips,Ugh. Someone else mentioned that and I thought it was ridiculous. I mean, I can see why the company doesn't want to pay for _extra_ tips, because it's potentially too open to abuse when the employee thinks "it's not my money, I'll tip lots and see if I get some free scotch". But it's unsupportable in western restaurants, where tipping is not really optional, and in many countries where bribes are necessary even for routine official transactions. I mean, it probably works out OK in that
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The tips thing is actually about what the tax man allows, I believe. You can't give someone else a gift out of money you received which you didn't pay tax on, something like that.
So I go with your logic - tipping 10% (you think 20 is normal?!?) is less than I'd spend at home.
Ah! Then yes, I can see where that comes from (although I can still think of cases where it would be unfair -- you could occasionally have someone entertaining for work, who had to buy a meal so expensive the tip was more than they could afford to pay, which is fine if they wanted that meal, but not if they literally couldn't afford it. That's not very likely, but I'd prefer the policy was fair to start with). But yes, most of the time, that'd be fine.
I meant, 20% in America. I usually tipped 10% in the UK (though some places have started to recommend 12.5%, I ).
Your company should have a policy, but ours is: - Clothes - No, although if you travel for more than a week you can expense laundry. But if it's safety gear, seems reasonable for work to pay. - Beer - sure, with a meal. We have a per diem limit (but don't get to keep anything we don't spend) and basically if your meal + beer is reasonable, it's going to get approved - Snacks/ drinks - Technically not in policy, but people do it. I generally approve this if they haven't otherwise pushed the envelope, ie if it looks like it was a snack instead of a meal not as well as.
I can't really imagine you racked up a shocking expense bill so I'd submit the lot if I were you.
I generally approve this if they haven't otherwise pushed the envelope, ie if it looks like it was a snack instead of a meal not as well as.
Yeah, that all sounds reasonable.
I can't really imagine you racked up a shocking expense bill so I'd submit the lot if I were you.
Yeah, I'm basically going to (although it sounds like I need to deduct tips which wasn't obvious to me from our policy), typically manager will automatically sign off without quibbling, but I thought it was worth getting into good habits.
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Eek. Yeah, that makes sense.
I wasn't sure about clothes -- in that case that's what my manager said to do, so it's OK in this case, but I don't know if it's normal or not. IIRC if it's clothes you could wear outside work or for other jobs (eg. shirt and tie), it's your responsibility, even if you don't want them, because that's just a normal part of having a job. And if it's safety clothes (as in this case) your employer should buy them, (I think). And if it's a uniform, it's not clear -- it seems like the employer isn't required to buy them, but probably should be, and sometimes does.
AFAICT, my manager will just automatically sign off on anything reasonable, and would rather I didn't worry about it. But I wish I had a clearer idea of "reasonable" in advance. so I can set a good precedent now in case I end up expensing many things in future.
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Every company is different, though.
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Also, some offices have a per-dium, which can be 'whatever you do when you're abroad, we give you 25 pounds a day for food and drink etc, no questions asked' or 'whatever you spend when you're abroad, you can't spend more than 25 pounds a day on food, it's an upper cap, but we'll only pay you for what you did spend' Worth checking, because it's clearly a guideline as to what _they_ think is reasonable.
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Also, some offices have a per-dium,Yeah, IIRC we don't officially, but we're advised to use the German office's domestic per-dium as a guideline when in Germany (which we were broadly in line with ( ... )
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Yeah, that definitely seems reasonable.
I think is the start of a slippery slope that means anyone who takes more money in wages than the bare minimum they need not to starve and have a roof over their head is somehow doing something 'wrong'.I think I see what you mean, but I don't think that's quite what I meant. If expenses are routinely approved up to $20, and everyone expenses exactly $20, rather than sometimes less, that suggests that they feel they can't afford NOT to, either because they're coming out behind financially and need to compensate, or because everyone else is getting the maximum perks possible, and they feel like a chump for not doing so. As in, it's a symptom of unclear ( ... )
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I've never heard of expensing clothes - I'd expect normal business clothes to be bought out of your own pocket, and specialist safety clothes to be supplied directly to you by the company.
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Yeah. There's theoretically a policy, but I don't think it represents reality. So probably, anything halfway reasonable is fine, but I'd rather say "this is what I thought reasonable of my own judgement[1]" and if they have any clarifications they want to make, they should have made them in advance. But I didn't buy anything expensive -- if beer _wasn't_ covered, I'd have been happy to buy local beer out of my own pocket :)
the company would pay for meals but not tips,Ugh. Someone else mentioned that and I thought it was ridiculous. I mean, I can see why the company doesn't want to pay for _extra_ tips, because it's potentially too open to abuse when the employee thinks "it's not my money, I'll tip lots and see if I get some free scotch". But it's unsupportable in western restaurants, where tipping is not really optional, and in many countries where bribes are necessary even for routine official transactions. I mean, it probably works out OK in that ( ... )
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So I go with your logic - tipping 10% (you think 20 is normal?!?) is less than I'd spend at home.
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I meant, 20% in America. I usually tipped 10% in the UK (though some places have started to recommend 12.5%, I ).
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- Clothes - No, although if you travel for more than a week you can expense laundry. But if it's safety gear, seems reasonable for work to pay.
- Beer - sure, with a meal. We have a per diem limit (but don't get to keep anything we don't spend) and basically if your meal + beer is reasonable, it's going to get approved
- Snacks/ drinks - Technically not in policy, but people do it. I generally approve this if they haven't otherwise pushed the envelope, ie if it looks like it was a snack instead of a meal not as well as.
I can't really imagine you racked up a shocking expense bill so I'd submit the lot if I were you.
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Yeah, that all sounds reasonable.
I can't really imagine you racked up a shocking expense bill so I'd submit the lot if I were you.
Yeah, I'm basically going to (although it sounds like I need to deduct tips which wasn't obvious to me from our policy), typically manager will automatically sign off without quibbling, but I thought it was worth getting into good habits.
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