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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 04:32:20 UTC


I loved this essay

Thank you! <3

and thought the last paragraph was a nice addition, especially with the 'god and king' analogy.

Holly makes me look much smarter than I actually am. :)

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dlgood July 23 2008, 04:36:11 UTC
Somewhat tangential note, but Xander's lie in Becoming is, I think, of two parts. Not one. Namely the two lies concern:
a) omitting the second attempt at a soul spell
b) asserting "kick his ass" as Willow's opinion

Such that, not only is Buffy uninformed about what might happen in the mansion - but Buffy is unaware of Willow's sympathy with her position.

Maybe be I'm overstating the potential effect of this on the Buffy-Willow relationship, but it could bear exploration. (though that's tangential here...)

But, it does speak to one more aspect of othering... Xander doesn't just punish Buffy for her choice - but perhaps also Willow for sympathizing with Buffy instead of him.

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a_white_rain July 23 2008, 04:38:48 UTC
Actually that's the biggest part that bothered me. That Xander spoke for Willow about something that Willow did not believe in. In that time, Willow spoke hardest for Buffy and her feelings for Angel. Willow was Buffy's BFF way more than any other character, and Willow's anger in Selfless was nice. But we never got any more development. :(

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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 18:27:49 UTC


we never got any more development.

Which is, perhaps, the point. It was never addressed, so it's possible that Joss & Co didn't feel it needed addressing, that they condoned it. People who do bad things on Buffy get punished. Buffy indulges in forbidden love; Buffy loses her lover. Angel kills people; Angel is sent to hell. Faith kills people; Faith loses a year of her life to a coma, and then another few to prison. Wesley steals Angel's child; Wesley has his throat cut, and is abandoned by his friends. Gunn does something he knows is wrong to keep his mind implant; Gunn loses his friend, and is sent to a hell dimension. If you live in Buffyland, and you do something bad, you can expect to be punished. But Xander is never punished for his deception, which suggests that it is not considered a bad thing.

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a_white_rain July 23 2008, 21:04:49 UTC
Those are very very good thoughts. *PONDERS SOME MORE*

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a_white_rain July 23 2008, 04:37:25 UTC
From clevermonikerr

I'm not quite sure what to think of Xander wrt the lie in Becoming II. Because we aren't given explicate motivations for Xander and there is no development past it, besides Willow's 'WHAT I DIDN'T SAY THAT' with regards to the 'kick his ass' line. I'm not sure if it has to do with Otherness or what. *PONDERS*

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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 04:48:56 UTC


Of course it's up to interpretation, but as I find Xander's relationship with Buffy to be very much hinged on propriety, that was my reading. I could be wrong. :)

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a_white_rain July 23 2008, 04:50:10 UTC
I think my problem is that I'm not quite sure how I read Buffy and Xander's relationship. I think it's because I don't think the canon calls out Xander's flaws enough. Willow had that problem, but with her, it was an ongoing character arc for her.

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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 15:49:33 UTC


I think that canon may not "call out Xander's flaws enough" because (a) they're not necessarily seen as flaws, and (b) the flaws he does have are thought to be excusable. Xander has way more latitude than Buffy or Willow when it comes to the holy crap, I'm fucking up my life department.

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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 04:50:28 UTC


Okay, I'd make an intelligent, irreverent answer about how Xander's "right" is that he's the majority, but I'm too busy laughing. Hee! I heart you big, lady.

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ljgould July 23 2008, 04:47:49 UTC
Very good, my dear.

I always enjoy a well written essay using an idea that I'd not considered. Your usage of Othello was inspired. I think the next time I watch an episode of BtVS, I'll be seeing Xander as Iago.

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carlyinrome July 23 2008, 15:50:31 UTC


Thanks so much! I'm glad you enjoyed my insane theories. :)

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