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caz963 March 27 2011, 17:46:03 UTC
Firstly, stop calling yourself pathetic. Why is is pathetic to want something to turn out well? Sure, life sucks sometimes, but it's not all bad, no matter that it can seem like it at tines, especially when things aren't going well for us. I suspect that the majority of people don't want misery in their fiction or drama. Sometimes it's necessary for a story, but most of us like to be happy, don't we?

BUT... that said, I think it's also true that "making do" is part of all our lives. One of the things about RTD's who was that he celebrated the ordinary. Rose was a shop girl, Martha was a student (admittedly a very bright one), Donna was a temp. None of them were "special" (not like Amy who is so important to the fate of the universe - yuk!), except in their ordinariness. And all of them were special and did extraordinary things when they were with someone who believed in them.

And to be fair, Moff did have Eleven say "there's no such thing as an 'ordinary human'", so I'll give him credit for that.

As far as the TV tropes go, the ( ... )

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canterlevi March 27 2011, 19:32:10 UTC
That was lovely! (Stands and applauds.)

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bas_math_girl March 27 2011, 21:10:56 UTC
I was going to come on here and be all clever like, and I can't think of a flipping thing!! Argh!! What is a bad creative writing teacher like btw, since I've never done a course in that? [Can't imagine you being bad as a teacher, for what it's worth]

*prods sleeping brain* I've had a couple of brilliant blokes as my current best friend, so I know that can work wonderfully well (until some woman claims him). I too share a common background with Donna, and have banged on about that in the past, and I found the humour of their relationship inspiring - you might have noticed that aspect somewhere - on so many levels. I freely admit I ignore the existence of Rose and what RTD made of that, since I find it so hard to swallow and more than icky.

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luinel March 27 2011, 21:28:58 UTC
I totally agree with both you and Caz, but there's more going to it. I just love that Donna dresses modestly and is a realistic weight. She witty and funny, does things even when she's afraid, and selfless. She has a lot of common sense. She isn't a Barbie doll, and it's such a relief. And she's nice, Rose just wasn't a very nice person sometimes...Donna cares so much that she goes out of her way to help and cries about it, too. Oh, and she stands up to the Doctor, gives him a kick in the pants when he needs it.

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topaz_eyes March 27 2011, 22:17:45 UTC
This whole idea that a couple cannot be written successfully on a TV show, that there cannot be a happy ending, is bunk.

I wonder if this is maybe this is why romance books and traditional fairy tales always end with the wedding. That way, readers/listeners could interpret the HEA according to their own dreams, hopes and aspirations for the marriage afterward, and not be disillusioned.

It seems that if the charcters are written correctly, it shouldn't be an issue.

But--how do you define "correctly"? Does that mean "consistent with fans' expectations for the couple", or "consistent with what has been established for the characters", or something else? Sometimes (and all too often on TV it seems), keeping a relationship consistent with the characters means the couple will break up, usually because their motivations are too much at odds. (And IME the relationship never seems to go the way the fans want it to anyway, even when it's happy.)

In forcing Donna to make do, is RTD forcing us to make do as well?I don't know. I only try ( ... )

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canterlevi March 28 2011, 01:09:26 UTC
I guess when I say correctly I mean how people who have made a commitment of sorts to each other behave and don't bail out when things get ugly. People in real life do it all the time ( ... )

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In which I ramble and attempt to find a point lenozzedifigaro March 28 2011, 01:17:36 UTC
Let me preface this by saying I really do love Doctor Who and the first half of this post comes from the darker side of myself through which I occasionally view the world.I really, really hesitate to bring this up with anybody, but since you asked...I deliberately ignore how squicky I feel about the Doctor's taking Donna's memories and exactly what it boils down to. I think once before I've talked about it with someone on a comm (our comm, perhaps!) and it in turn makes me think of Sylar and Claire and in the end all I can say about the Doctor, at his very core, is that he's really not a very nice guy. He pretends to be, and he chums about and laughs and jokes and saves the day...and yet in the end he's this control freak who constantly takes away the power of choice and that really bothers me, if I think about it too much. And it's what happens to Donna that brought all that out for me ( ... )

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Re: In which I ramble and attempt to find a point canterlevi March 28 2011, 12:45:29 UTC
I thought i left a reply last night, but it doesn't seem to have posted, so I'll write it again. :-)

First of all, did I tell you how much I liked the Bonkers trilogy of stories you wrote? (That was you, right?)

But doesn't the Doctor always give the 'bad guys' a choice? I mean, before he gets all Bad Ass/Oncoming Storm on them? He gave the Queen of the Racnoss a choice and the Sontarans. Throughout the entire series he always gives them a choice. One could argue that it's not his place to hand out the choices and the punishments and that he acts like a kind of self-appointed Sheriff of the Universe.

I felt that she helped tame that nastier side of him and in return he gave her himself in a way his other companions didn't see...but of course, in the end he couldn't help himself. I like this statement. He kind of made choices for everyone at the end of Journey's End, didn't he. And then went for the whole "I'm a martyr" persona. Was RTD deliberately going for the whole Jesus thing, or did it just wind up that way? If I was ( ... )

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