If 'socialist' means ...

[mijopo]

Not surprisingly, Canada tends to "outperform" the US on measures such as percentage below the poverty level, i.e., Canada has a lower percentage, gini coefficient (less disparity in income distribution) and health care statistics (lower costs, higher life expectancy and lower infant mortality rate). More surprisingly, I think, according to figures

Comments

[ghostwes]

"It's often observed that Canadian Conservatives are to the left of the Democrats, consider issues like capital punishment, health care, etc."

With you so far. In fact, I think the current Conservatives would like to go further to the right, if only the Canadian public were willing to follow.

"But it's notable that sometimes Canada's Liberals have been to the right of the Republican party."

Lost me here -- in what way?

[mijopo]

Lost me here -- in what way?
Cutting spending and allowing for decentralization.

[wee_little_me]

How is that to the right?
Given the circumstances that Canada is in, it would be foolish for the government to keep a surplus and piss it away. As far as I can tell, they arent cutting back on anything to give back.

[mijopo]

Government spending cuts are usually associated with conservative economic policies. Conservative, in the generic sense, governments typically want to decrease the role of government in economic (and social) life and avoid deficit spending, so the usual fall out of that are cuts in goverment spending.

Given the circumstances that Canada is in, it would be foolish for the government to keep a surplus and piss it away. As far as I can tell, they arent cutting back on anything to give back.

I'm not sure what you're you talking about here.

[wee_little_me]

But it's notable that sometimes Canada's Liberals have been to the right of the Republican party

I have so much beef with this.
Canadian Conservatives are to the left of the Republican party.

As for this article. It has pretty well confirmed what we already knew.

But you cannot compare Canada to the US, considering the US has been at war for the past near-enough decade and its pretty well known that a monkey was running the show the entire time.
Canada was able to lower taxes, raise wages, and help its people. The US didnt have that privilage when they decided to foccus on empire building instead of giving back to the people.

This shouldnt come as a shock to anyone.

[mijopo]

I have so much beef with this.
Canadian Conservatives are to the left of the Republican party.

I agree. I'm just saying that in some matters the Liberals have acted like or taken positions more typical of conservative parties.

This shouldnt come as a shock to anyone.

Well, I guess I wasn't completely shocked or attempting to shock, I'm sure everyone knew that Canada was running surpluses while the Republicans were spending madly. But I was surprised by some of these facts, federal share of government spending for example, and I think the combination of factors does point to an interesting trend. Not all of it is simply explained away by war spending either.

[wee_little_me]

i think you're confusing the situation here.

Just like in 2002 in America when the Republicans moved right, and the Democrats followed.

Just because the Republicans have moved left, doesnt mean that Canadian Liberals have moved right.

[mijopo]

Just because the Republicans have moved left, doesnt mean that Canadian Liberals have moved right.

I didn't say that Canadian Liberals have moved to the right (although I think you could argue that they have) but I'm not sure what you're contending with.

[siobhan63]

I think the key thing here is that the main strength of the Liberal party has always been a decided absence of ideology when it comes to governing. The Libs have never met a policy position that they're not willing to "incorporate" if they think it's a good one and might win them votes. That's the main criticism others (i.e. Dippers and Cons) tend to level at them - they don't stand for anything. Maybe they don't in a purely ideological sense - but that's a good thing. Issues aren't left or right, and i firmly believe that it's totally asinine to take a purely left or right-wing approach to dealling with them. If cutting spending makes sense to deal with a debt/deficit problem, that's what you do. If universal healthcare works for most, you implement it, etc. The Libs are pragmatists when it comes to governing - a country as complex as Canada can't be approached from a single ideological perspective.

[mijopo]

Yes, I used to dislike the Liberals for precisely that reason, i.e., I'd object that they failed to have a grand vision of what they wanted Canada to be. But they've really made me rethink my views on what a government and political party should be doing. Sometimes, I now think, it's okay for a party to see themselves simply as managers and/or taking small steps towards a large goal while doing what it takes to ensure the country is running smoothly. Not every political leader has to be a Gandhi or even a Trudeau. One could argue that maneuvering Canada into a state of relative financial strength while preserving things that Canada's valued deeply, e.g., an effective health care system and a relatively stable social safety net, was in itself a sufficiently lofty goal.

[bronnyelsp]

New Labour had a grand ideological vision and look where it got them.

Then, the Republicans seemed not to have a vision/to be constantly contradicting their vision, and look where it got them.

I think a long-term plan is a good thing, but it doesn't necessarily have to be an ideological one. If that makes any sense.

[siphre]

As a political science student, I hate it when people miss use terms and/or improperly imply them.

Neither country favours socialism. We have mixed market economies with various degrees of government interference and non-interference. This is far from the socialism. The current term would be Social Democracy or The Third Way (Centrism).

[mijopo]

Note that 'socialist' was in scare quotes in the original article. Nobody was claiming that Canada is in fact an example of socialism in its purest form.

But while we're nitpicking over word misuse, I think the word you want is 'misuse' not 'miss use'. (As a user of the English language, I hate it when people ...)

[mijopo]

As a user of the English language, I hate it when people ...

I should add, though, that I'm a huge fan of irony.

[siphre]

You were assuming my comment was directed towards you.

[warrioreowyn]

Decentralization is definitely something conservative Americans would like about Canada. One clear example that that while the US has a federal Department of Education, Canada doesn't - it's a provincial issue.

The reason for roughly equal spending, I think, is that what we spend on health care and some other areas, they spend on defense.

The Liberals have certainly been more fiscally responsible than the Republicans in the US,. but I wouldn't refer to that as being "more conservatives". The right would prefer people to think of them as more fiscally responsible, but that idea is often not backed up by facts. Harper is the same - the Liberals ran surpluses by keeping spending and taxes in balance; Harper was skating on the edge of deficits even before the recession hit in full force because of his GST cut.

[mijopo]

Insofar as the Liberals realized their fiscal responsibility via spending cuts, I think it's fair to say that they were acting in a manner often associated with conservative economic policy. I concur that in fact many allegedly conservative governments have failed to enact such a policy, but cutting spending is still a fairly widely acknowledged hallmark of conservative economic policy.

[allhatnocattle]

The reason for roughly equal spending, I think, is that what we spend on health care and some other areas, they spend on defense

It certainly feels that way, but is it true?