There is no longer a need for war now. Wars nowadays exist for ideology's sake and for profit rather than for survival. Unfortunately human consciousness simply has not caught up to that fact. Society certainly has not.
Orwell's belief was, and I quote, that "men can only be highly civilized while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." Not because war is a natural aspect of our natures, but because violence is for some people, always has been and always will be. The place of those inclined to violence and the creation of its abetting technologies was once solid and known in our society: they aided our survival against outside threats. Now, the wilderness is largely tamed, and wars are matters of mental borders and extraneous resources instead of true survival. The warrior is displaced. Misdirected, sent to die in wars he does not even understand. The best he can do is focus on internal threats within society, and that is a much more delicate matter.
I can relate. There was always a sense of necessity beyond morality, a point at which morals become a hindrance to advancement. However, my own views were heavily tainted by vengeance, and individual experiences certainly vary.
Precisely. In my line of work, morality's... a crutch that lesser scientists leaned on to avoid pushing and developing and mastering technology beyond the restraints of conventional application. Morality may not always be what's beneficial for the "greater good."
If a moral code no longer keeps up with the needs of the masses, then a daresay it should be updated anyway. Technological advances will always change the moral landscape. For all we know, someone will presently invent a machine that allows, for example, flawless indication of whether someone is lying or not. Imagine a world without falsity. Whether lying is situationally right or wrong would become irrelevant; people would be forced to live with the truth, no matter how uncomfortable.
Morality is a crutch. Society uses it to beat you down so the strong and smart don't tear the weak and stupid to shreds. The idiots have strength in numbers, and - usually - numbers make the rules.
Society was mine. My family ran everyone who would fight us out of our town, we had dirty cops covering everything up, and no one else wanted to touch the place with a ten foot pole.
Until some outsider came in and decided to fuck it up. That's why I'm here.
Your family, then, defined their own culture and morality for themselves. It sounds like a fascinating experience. A scion of your own clan, as it were, your allegiances only to your fellows.
As ta yer first set o' questions, there are societies who can't forget that need as a group because fighting is never far enough away ta grow foreign and always harsh enough ta be needed. I can't speak for places where they do have tha time ta forget it, o' course, but it seems ta me it'd take someone a tad odd ta deny respect ta the men who fight for his sake.
And tha rest... I doubt ye'll find much that all can agree on when everyone comes from such different lands with different ideas on what's right for them ta be doin'. [Inmates.]
I thoroughly agree that those who protect a society should be remembered. This is a matter of both ideology and logic. Safety does not manifest out of thin air; it is worked for by those who venture outside of its zone.
Perhaps there is no consensus to be found. Yet one can learn a great deal simply by asking.
[audio; PRIVATE (thank you, Pink)]frickinbarettaSeptember 13 2011, 13:25:14 UTC
[Freddy thinks for a long time before hazarding a response. It's too close to things he's wondered about himself but been afraid to examine too closely, dangerously close, but like a moth drawn to flame he can't help but answer the call.
He contents himself with assuming the guy's a warden; he SEEMS like a warden, anyway.
Unlike his earlier endeavors on the communicator, the punk-ass turns of phrase and dropping of letters are gone. You're speaking to Freddy, Hannibal. Not Freddy-As-Orange, not Orange, but Freddy.]
What if your giris don't mesh?
[Clumsy; he's close on pronunciation, but it's nowhere near as perfect as Hannibal's.]
Like, you agree to help one guy out, and then you say you're gonna help somebody else but you can't do both 'cause they go against each other?
[audio; PRIVATE]cannibalmindSeptember 13 2011, 19:02:22 UTC
If one is honor bound to enough obligations, eventually some of them will end up at cross purposes with each other. It is in this way that people end up with unpayable debts whose holders they must honor.
Let me give you an example. A man is obligated to remain free and able to practice in his profession. He is also obligated to treat his friends well and do them no harm. Yet one day a friend discovers that the man has done something illegal. As a law officer the friend's own giri demands that he report the crime. He ends up conflicted between two obligations--between his friend and the law--just as the first man is conflicted between his friend and his obligation to keep his good name and keep his life from ruin
( ... )
[audio; PRIVATE]cannibalmindSeptember 13 2011, 22:20:18 UTC
Why do I get the feeling that you have been caught in such a web by your struggles to be a good man yourself? It's a terribly ironic situation to be in, and if so, you have my sympathy.
But no, life is not merely about obligation...unless you are Japanese, of course, they seem to thrive on them. You have an obligation to yourself, as well. When caught up in such circumstances, the best thing to do is to take one of two ways. One, you decide right then and there, with the suddenness of a hawk's strike, choosing to live with the consequences. Two, you step back, and give yourself time to find your center and ponder the best course.
Either way requires a great deal of self-confidence and decisiveness. It is not easy. But it is doable.
Comments 120
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
Back home, I never put much thought into morality. It seemed... irrelevant to my pursuits.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
My baseline for morality is nowhere.
Reply
Reply
Until some outsider came in and decided to fuck it up. That's why I'm here.
Reply
Reply
And tha rest... I doubt ye'll find much that all can agree on when everyone comes from such different lands with different ideas on what's right for them ta be doin'. [Inmates.]
Reply
Perhaps there is no consensus to be found. Yet one can learn a great deal simply by asking.
Reply
Reply
Reply
He contents himself with assuming the guy's a warden; he SEEMS like a warden, anyway.
Unlike his earlier endeavors on the communicator, the punk-ass turns of phrase and dropping of letters are gone. You're speaking to Freddy, Hannibal. Not Freddy-As-Orange, not Orange, but Freddy.]
What if your giris don't mesh?
[Clumsy; he's close on pronunciation, but it's nowhere near as perfect as Hannibal's.]
Like, you agree to help one guy out, and then you say you're gonna help somebody else but you can't do both 'cause they go against each other?
Reply
Let me give you an example. A man is obligated to remain free and able to practice in his profession. He is also obligated to treat his friends well and do them no harm. Yet one day a friend discovers that the man has done something illegal. As a law officer the friend's own giri demands that he report the crime. He ends up conflicted between two obligations--between his friend and the law--just as the first man is conflicted between his friend and his obligation to keep his good name and keep his life from ruin ( ... )
Reply
[That's...not even remotely reassuring.]
It makes it sound like life's just a bunch of obligations woven together like some kind of spiderweb that's bent to drive you insane.
But then again, fuck, that's life in a nutshell, isn't it? "Do your best and hope it doesn't screw you over too bad."
Reply
But no, life is not merely about obligation...unless you are Japanese, of course, they seem to thrive on them. You have an obligation to yourself, as well. When caught up in such circumstances, the best thing to do is to take one of two ways. One, you decide right then and there, with the suddenness of a hawk's strike, choosing to live with the consequences. Two, you step back, and give yourself time to find your center and ponder the best course.
Either way requires a great deal of self-confidence and decisiveness. It is not easy. But it is doable.
Reply
Leave a comment