So, how did your parents like the Jordan series as a whole? Were they satisfied with the ending in spite of all the roadblocks along the way, or did they feel it really wasn't worth it?
With Martin, he's reaching a point where he has to keep up. While HBO is splitting season three into two, it's also started cannibalizing from books four and five, and books four and five alone will be mixed together for their seasons. I don't think he HAS until 2020, not if HBO wants to keep the showing going year after year (and why wouldn't they? Surely they wouldn't want to take a BREAK just because Martin's not done writing a book).
Reading A Dance with Dragons, I have some thoughts now about Martin's process and what I feel we should cut him slack for and what I feel we shouldn't. But that won't be in the review (okay, maybe it will). I think I'll do a separate post
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From what I understand, Martin's had long conversations with D&D about how ASoIaF ends. They feel confident they can do the entire story in 8 seasons of TV show, and I don't get the impression they're going to pull back on the reins of TV production because Martin hasn't finished the next book yet. If the show stays successful and in production, I rather think that Martin's going to be the one left behind, and who knows if that'll galvanize him or leave him dragging his feet (book-wise)?
If the show stays successful and in production, I rather think that Martin's going to be the one left behind, and who knows if that'll galvanize him or leave him dragging his feet (book-wise)?
I hope it'll galvanize him and make him focus. One can only hope, though....
For me it's Janny Wurts and her 'Wars of Light and Shadow", for me the ultimate Epic Fantasy series. Thankfully she really has a good time management and a plan (GRRM never had the former and after I stopped reading Dance halfway through I also doub the latter), but still, despite the fact that she is close to finishing it, there are still 3 volumes to be published
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Heh, halfway through DANCE is a trial. I'm just now over 60% on my Kindle. I too wonder whether or not he's got a plan, or if he does, is it written down?
Wurts is an author I keep hearing good things about, but I also hear if you like her, you REALLY like her, and if you don't, you can't stand it.
Martin gives a lot of credit (I'm told) to Tad Williams Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn books for showing him he could write a Song of Ice and Fire, as in "Epic fantasy on this scale is possible". You actually see a lot of throw away references to it in some books
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I don't know if I'll ever read that particular series by Williams. I still have his Otherland cycle to get through! I've only read book one, but I've got all four.
Jordan's another I'm not sure I'll ever pick up, despite its completion now. I just hear too many bad things about the middle through where he died, that the series really didn't pick up again until Sanderson took the reins. As a reader, I have to ask, do I really want to spend my time with that?
And Martin... oy. I'm just now 60% complete with DANCE, but that first half is a loaded lesson of what NOT to do when it comes to teaching writers how to construct chapters. Also, reading that portion makes me think if I'm not better served by sticking with HBO's adaptation by this point, but we'll see... I've still got 40%!
I haven't read Otherland. I'm told by a lot of people who had the same issues I did with Memory, Sorrow and Thorn that it fixes a lot of the problems it had.
I finished the first book when I was a sophomore in college (2001?). I dread getting back to the series because I'm afraid I'm going to have to re-read that sucker... maybe I should try to read book two and just see where it takes me. Some authors are good about catching you up. :)
My very short contribution to this discussion is that I stopped reading Martin's books because I was tired of waiting. By the time the next novel is published, I've forgotten many of the interesting details in the previous tomes. There are lots of good fantasy novels, and I honestly don't see the point of waiting years to know what happens next.
A lot of people have that same problem. Even I do, but I refuse to re-read the books as the new ones are released (or will, once I get caught up). I can't blame someone for bailing. :)
My history with Martin's ASOIAF goes back to 2001, when I started reading what was back then just a trilogy, being spoken of quite highly in a usenet newsgroup I frequented. It was love at first sight, and instant addiction, as my internet nick might indicate... :-) If the story were not as compelling (even taking into account every drawback or style consideration we could think of) I would probably have abandoned it long ago. Somehow Martin invested me in his world and his character and I'm ready to wait him out until the end - of the saga, not his! LOL
Getting to your question, I'm not sure it's so much a matter of structure - yes, endless sagas tend to lose readers along the way, yet I believe that as long as the story is compelling, as long as the characters reach out to some part of the reader's soul/brain/whatever, the author does keep a firm grip on his readership
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You have a great point about compelling stories and characters you can invest in. Trouble is, everyone has a different tolerance. I'm starting to reach the point where I don't care what happens to anyone or anything (and Martin's made me that way, given the way he kills off characters) so long as I can get a real, solid conclusion (and avoid endless descriptions of meals and banners and coats of arms, etc). So basically, the conclusion is more important than the journey at this point, which only makes it more ironic, in my eyes, when George was bitching about the end of Lost. :)
True. For example, there's one of the friends I... Martin-ized in the course of time, who tells me she still enjoys the story, but has to force herself to go past the darkness and violence.
Not being familiar with Lost - or GRRM's complaints about it -I can say that the conclusion *does* matter because we'll see how the many story-lines reach the end, and how the world will be changed by events, and people. But at the same time I believe the journey is also important, because the core characters (those still alive, that is...) are mostly young people learning what it means becoming adults. And the price that requires. It's probably - now that you make me think about it - what still draws me to the saga despite the long in-betweens.
My point about Lost was not to go throwing stones. :) If his series was DONE and people were happy with the ending, venting his frustrations about Lost would've made sense. They make sense anyway from a fan level, but as a creator, he doesn't have room to criticize because right now, he hasn't finished, and some fans have serious doubts that he will, you know?
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With Martin, he's reaching a point where he has to keep up. While HBO is splitting season three into two, it's also started cannibalizing from books four and five, and books four and five alone will be mixed together for their seasons. I don't think he HAS until 2020, not if HBO wants to keep the showing going year after year (and why wouldn't they? Surely they wouldn't want to take a BREAK just because Martin's not done writing a book).
Reading A Dance with Dragons, I have some thoughts now about Martin's process and what I feel we should cut him slack for and what I feel we shouldn't. But that won't be in the review (okay, maybe it will). I think I'll do a separate post ( ... )
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If the show stays successful and in production, I rather think that Martin's going to be the one left behind, and who knows if that'll galvanize him or leave him dragging his feet (book-wise)?
I hope it'll galvanize him and make him focus. One can only hope, though....
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Wurts is an author I keep hearing good things about, but I also hear if you like her, you REALLY like her, and if you don't, you can't stand it.
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Jordan's another I'm not sure I'll ever pick up, despite its completion now. I just hear too many bad things about the middle through where he died, that the series really didn't pick up again until Sanderson took the reins. As a reader, I have to ask, do I really want to spend my time with that?
And Martin... oy. I'm just now 60% complete with DANCE, but that first half is a loaded lesson of what NOT to do when it comes to teaching writers how to construct chapters. Also, reading that portion makes me think if I'm not better served by sticking with HBO's adaptation by this point, but we'll see... I've still got 40%!
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If the story were not as compelling (even taking into account every drawback or style consideration we could think of) I would probably have abandoned it long ago. Somehow Martin invested me in his world and his character and I'm ready to wait him out until the end - of the saga, not his! LOL
Getting to your question, I'm not sure it's so much a matter of structure - yes, endless sagas tend to lose readers along the way, yet I believe that as long as the story is compelling, as long as the characters reach out to some part of the reader's soul/brain/whatever, the author does keep a firm grip on his readership ( ... )
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True. For example, there's one of the friends I... Martin-ized in the course of time, who tells me she still enjoys the story, but has to force herself to go past the darkness and violence.
Not being familiar with Lost - or GRRM's complaints about it -I can say that the conclusion *does* matter because we'll see how the many story-lines reach the end, and how the world will be changed by events, and people. But at the same time I believe the journey is also important, because the core characters (those still alive, that is...) are mostly young people learning what it means becoming adults. And the price that requires.
It's probably - now that you make me think about it - what still draws me to the saga despite the long in-betweens.
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