Nothing really new to add to the general discussion, except for a few points:
1) I second (third? fourth?) the SciFi miniseries love. 2) I read Dune right after reading the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. It was practically relaxing by comparison. 3) I appreciate the comparison to the Kushiel trilogy, though I'd never thought about it. You're right!
The most heavy and surprising Dune influence I've come across recently is in R. Scott Bakker's fantasy series "The Prince of Nothing". It has much of the type of political intrigue and musings on religion and war that Dune has, and there are a group of characters that remind me very much of the Bene Geserit, except theyr'e not all women.
The only reason I could get through LOTR was because I'd seen the first film a million times, and had the setting and characters in my head. :) I can see how Dune would be relaxing afterwards. :)
"I just couldn't read the name "Lady Jessica" without laughing"
Wikipedia -
"Jessica is a name from the Hebrew Yiskah (יִסְכָּה), name of a daughter of Haran, meaning "the Lord beholds" or "the Lord's gift."
The Hebrew root sakhah (ס.כ.ה) means "to see," so the name Yiskah, with the added yud, implies foresight or clairvoyance.There is midrash by Rashi suggesting that Yiskah is also a name for Sarah, so the meaning of this name makes sense for two reasons: people would gaze at her beauty, and she was known to be a prophetess. The name Jessica also stands for wealth
( ... )
Thanks so much for that information on the name of Jessica. :) Fascinating, and I bet you're right that he knew. I think my initial problem is that Jessica, despite it's origins, sounds like such a modern name to me, and I went to school (in the eighties) with a couple kids named Jessica, and from knowing them personally, it was really hard to take the character name seriously, especially in light of the "Lady" title. :)
I definitely won't say Dune is original, and I know that Lucas was admittedly influence by Campbell's studies in mythology. But the details always stand out to me--desert planet, spice, and the whole bit about the abilities to see into the future and the past and all of it remind me strongly of the Force (some of my association, though, comes from reading the SW Expanded Universe novels). But, I've never heard Lucas mention Herbert's work in interviews, so it's hard to say. :)
I'm so pleased that you read and *enjoyed* Dune. I remember Jeanne using an exerpt of it in class as an example of how *not* to write PoV. As I recall, Mike DeLuca and I tried to defend Herbert.
I read "Dune" in my early twenties and I remember finding it to be a slow start. I was a more patient reader then and got hooked by it. I read other books by Herbert as well but my fuzzy memory doesn't recall which.
I tried to reread Dune in the 80s, but didn't enjoy it as much second time through. I did enjoy the mini-series although it was hard to keep track since I'd long forgotten the plot intricacies and characters. I stayed away from the film when it was released because I was leery of Lynch movies at the time. I have a hate/love thing for his work. Finally caught it on TV at some point, but never could put MacLachlan in the role of Paul.
Well, there are two things to remember about Jeanne's use of Dune. Yes, she used it as an example of how NOT to do POV. I agree with her wholeheartedly. Omniscient can be done well (Mary Doria Russell does it), but it's far too head-hoppy, especially in this day and age.
But Jeanne also used the book as an example of a good opening, if I recall, which interested me a great bit. Her overall thoughts on the story and what the book's done for SF, we didn't hear and I still don't know. I don't remember you defending it at the time (though I do remember you defending it on the Odfellows board), but Mike was defending the book as a whole and what it did for SF. That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean we can't critize how it was written. :)
I only got up to the third book in the series and that was about when I quit reading. The rest of the books, from what I know, abandons the Atreides family and becomes something entirely different. Now, while that could be interesting, I can't help but feel like I should just go and read something else
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I ended up with the hardcover edition (not by choice..I was kind of ticked how it happened) and I despise the mini-series. I don't know what everyone's beef was with the movie either because I think it did a pretty good job.
Comments 49
1) I second (third? fourth?) the SciFi miniseries love.
2) I read Dune right after reading the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy. It was practically relaxing by comparison.
3) I appreciate the comparison to the Kushiel trilogy, though I'd never thought about it. You're right!
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The only reason I could get through LOTR was because I'd seen the first film a million times, and had the setting and characters in my head. :) I can see how Dune would be relaxing afterwards. :)
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Wikipedia -
"Jessica is a name from the Hebrew Yiskah (יִסְכָּה), name of a daughter of Haran, meaning "the Lord beholds" or "the Lord's gift."
The Hebrew root sakhah (ס.כ.ה) means "to see," so the name Yiskah, with the added yud, implies foresight or clairvoyance.There is midrash by Rashi suggesting that Yiskah is also a name for Sarah, so the meaning of this name makes sense for two reasons: people would gaze at her beauty, and she was known to be a prophetess. The name Jessica also stands for wealth ( ... )
Reply
I definitely won't say Dune is original, and I know that Lucas was admittedly influence by Campbell's studies in mythology. But the details always stand out to me--desert planet, spice, and the whole bit about the abilities to see into the future and the past and all of it remind me strongly of the Force (some of my association, though, comes from reading the SW Expanded Universe novels). But, I've never heard Lucas mention Herbert's work in interviews, so it's hard to say. :)
Reply
I read "Dune" in my early twenties and I remember finding it to be a slow start. I was a more patient reader then and got hooked by it. I read other books by Herbert as well but my fuzzy memory doesn't recall which.
I tried to reread Dune in the 80s, but didn't enjoy it as much second time through. I did enjoy the mini-series although it was hard to keep track since I'd long forgotten the plot intricacies and characters. I stayed away from the film when it was released because I was leery of Lynch movies at the time. I have a hate/love thing for his work. Finally caught it on TV at some point, but never could put MacLachlan in the role of Paul.
Reply
But Jeanne also used the book as an example of a good opening, if I recall, which interested me a great bit. Her overall thoughts on the story and what the book's done for SF, we didn't hear and I still don't know. I don't remember you defending it at the time (though I do remember you defending it on the Odfellows board), but Mike was defending the book as a whole and what it did for SF. That's all well and good, but that doesn't mean we can't critize how it was written. :)
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http://www0.epinions.com/review/Dune_Brian_Herbert/content_421605641860
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