yeech, I saw the cover as one of those sillhouette psychological tests, you know with two vases and a face, or is it two faces and a vase?? heh, anyway, I saw the shape in between their faces as this figure spinning round on the ice ... yes OK I am going to get my coffee now, something is obviously badly amiss with me this morning *g*
I've been hugely disappointed with most of the m/m stuff I've read -- it's either slash with the names filed off (and therefore tends not to make much sense without the context of the show) or it reads like het with a man substituted for the woman!
I did buy The Boy I Love on your recommendation. It turned up the other day, so I will read it soon!
Oh, I hope you like it. It's so different from Eraste's book that it's untrue - but... why Is it really just quality of writing? So if Erastes (for example) had written "Frost Fair" to a much higher standard of some sort, would it still have been classified as "romance"? Or alternatively, why does "The Boy I Love" not rate being called "romance"? It's just as focussed on the relationship...
Hee! And here you open the can of worms that is classification of books *g*. I read a lot of crime fiction, and there is much humphing and muttering about 'mainstream' writers who come along, write what's ostensibly a crime novel, but insist it's literature!
The other debate on m/m fic is whether it counts as gay fic. I'm on a GLBT list, and there was a very lively discussion where a lot of the blokes took the view that m/m fic isn't gay fic, as it tends to be sex/romance orientated and bears little resemblance to gay men's real lives.
Oh I know, I knew I was going for those worms, and I know it's been discussed a zillions times by people, but... I went anyway. *g*
m/m fic isn't gay fic, as it tends to be sex/romance orientated and bears little resemblance to gay men's real lives. Oh I know... I've been trying to work out what's "gay fic" and what's "m/m" and what the difference is, and how you can even tell anymore when so many women writers adopt male pseuds for their books (e.g. Erastes, in fact)... I mean how do you tell?!
It's all very well saying that men write gay fic in a different style to women, so the style/focus should be able to tell you, but... is that always true? And isn't it stereotyping gay writers as much as women writers? Suggesting that they should never think differently from "everyone else"?
"The Boy I Love" is a great example - I went into that without really having taken note of the author, but assuming that it was a man purely because I'd bought it at Gay's the Word in London, and it was about men, from a male pov. At no point
( ... )
We've got a lot of m/m recs around the house; if you want to give Erastes (whose pen name I still really enjoy -- she says, while writing a Roman AU), I know lysimache had another one by her that she really liked -- I can ask her when she gets home. She pretty much only reads the historicals.
My top pick, so far, is the Raised By Wolves series by W.A. Hoffman, or at least the first book -- she's up to the third now, and it's getting a little silly. But it's got gay pirates and the first one was great.
(I wasn't sure the author was a woman, but then Jen got me another gay pirate novel for my birthday, written by a man, and, um, there are distinct differences, like the part where women writers generally do not describe all characters by letting you know their penis size, in my experience.)
Oh I'd love to know titles, if it's not too much of a pain! Gay pirates sound great too, so I shall look up Hoffman. Do you know title and author of the male-written gay pirate fic?!
I've got to admit that in Pros fic I've read there's often a fair amount of (generally complimentary) description of penis size... My favourite is in one of Lizzie's Birdwatcher's series, which I adore, where Bodie's is described as like a plump, ripe tomato... *vbg*
The male-written pirate book -- which, seriously I do not recommend; I couldn't even finish it -- is The Buccaneer by M.S. Hunter. In addition to describing pretty much everyone by penis size (there are characters such as "Long Jimmy"), it's got a fair amount of "look how exotic and wonderful black men are! how large their penises are!" going on, that I don't think the author even realized he was doing, and it was really kind of sickeningly objectifying and I couldn't keep reading.
Hoffman's series reads much more like slash. Bisexual duelist sent to the New World for killing one too many people in a duel meets mad French buccaneer, they fall in love and go pirating together. Although by the third book, it's gotten a little strange now, but it's still a decent read.
I must admit that I did enjoy both 'Frost Fair' and Erastes' earlier m/m novel 'Standish'. I do have to say though that there was a tendency in both books to put the main protagonists into something reminiscent of a 'Mills and Boon' type m/f relationship.
I get the impression from things m/m authors have said on a Yahoo group that I belong to that publishers have quite a big say in the way their stories are written. Linden Bay, who published 'Frost Fair', seem to be particularly guilty in this respect (and also seem to set pretty strict word limits on their books, which I know the authors have found extremely frustrating). Linden Bay have now been taken over by another publishing house, Samhain, so there is a chance that things might improve on both scores.
As far as covers go, I can tell you that most of the m/m authors loathe the covers their books have been saddled with, particularly those who write historical fic. Most of them agree that a glimpse of period costume (as long as it's the correct period!) is far preferable to the
( ... )
I quite enjoyed Frost Fair, I guess I was just... maybe hoping for something a bit different than traditional m/f romance, somehow?
Interesting to hear about the publishing houses - I suppose it's a relatively "new" genre (in the "mainstream" world) so perhaps they're still finding their footing... sounds as though it might be moving in a better direction, anyway!
Yes, please post your m/m recs! I'd forgotten that you taunt us with the idea of that now and then... *g*
I actually did like Frost Fair, even though it was a tad predictable. I thought she wrote the baddie very well. But all in all, I enjoyed the read and the images she produced of London.
MJ Pearson has written some great stuff...The Price of Temptation and Discreet Young Gentleman...both historical, although the covers are very lurid, to say the least!
Ooh, the baddie was quite good, wasn't he... I didn't like him at all! *g* I did enjoy Frost Fair, I guess I was just hoping for something... maybe as you say, a wee bit less predictable... So maybe it was just this one storyline...
Thanks for the recs, just what I want! I shall look out for Pearson! That's the trouble with delving into a new genre, it's so hard to find good stuff unless someone gives you recs... I do love lj... *g* Simples! *vbg*
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I did buy The Boy I Love on your recommendation. It turned up the other day, so I will read it soon!
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The other debate on m/m fic is whether it counts as gay fic. I'm on a GLBT list, and there was a very lively discussion where a lot of the blokes took the view that m/m fic isn't gay fic, as it tends to be sex/romance orientated and bears little resemblance to gay men's real lives.
Reply
m/m fic isn't gay fic, as it tends to be sex/romance orientated and bears little resemblance to gay men's real lives.
Oh I know... I've been trying to work out what's "gay fic" and what's "m/m" and what the difference is, and how you can even tell anymore when so many women writers adopt male pseuds for their books (e.g. Erastes, in fact)... I mean how do you tell?!
It's all very well saying that men write gay fic in a different style to women, so the style/focus should be able to tell you, but... is that always true? And isn't it stereotyping gay writers as much as women writers? Suggesting that they should never think differently from "everyone else"?
"The Boy I Love" is a great example - I went into that without really having taken note of the author, but assuming that it was a man purely because I'd bought it at Gay's the Word in London, and it was about men, from a male pov. At no point ( ... )
Reply
My top pick, so far, is the Raised By Wolves series by W.A. Hoffman, or at least the first book -- she's up to the third now, and it's getting a little silly. But it's got gay pirates and the first one was great.
(I wasn't sure the author was a woman, but then Jen got me another gay pirate novel for my birthday, written by a man, and, um, there are distinct differences, like the part where women writers generally do not describe all characters by letting you know their penis size, in my experience.)
Reply
I've got to admit that in Pros fic I've read there's often a fair amount of (generally complimentary) description of penis size... My favourite is in one of Lizzie's Birdwatcher's series, which I adore, where Bodie's is described as like a plump, ripe tomato... *vbg*
Reply
The male-written pirate book -- which, seriously I do not recommend; I couldn't even finish it -- is The Buccaneer by M.S. Hunter. In addition to describing pretty much everyone by penis size (there are characters such as "Long Jimmy"), it's got a fair amount of "look how exotic and wonderful black men are! how large their penises are!" going on, that I don't think the author even realized he was doing, and it was really kind of sickeningly objectifying and I couldn't keep reading.
Hoffman's series reads much more like slash. Bisexual duelist sent to the New World for killing one too many people in a duel meets mad French buccaneer, they fall in love and go pirating together. Although by the third book, it's gotten a little strange now, but it's still a decent read.
Reply
Shall keep my eyes out for the Hoffman series though - cheers! *g*
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I get the impression from things m/m authors have said on a Yahoo group that I belong to that publishers have quite a big say in the way their stories are written. Linden Bay, who published 'Frost Fair', seem to be particularly guilty in this respect (and also seem to set pretty strict word limits on their books, which I know the authors have found extremely frustrating). Linden Bay have now been taken over by another publishing house, Samhain, so there is a chance that things might improve on both scores.
As far as covers go, I can tell you that most of the m/m authors loathe the covers their books have been saddled with, particularly those who write historical fic. Most of them agree that a glimpse of period costume (as long as it's the correct period!) is far preferable to the ( ... )
Reply
Interesting to hear about the publishing houses - I suppose it's a relatively "new" genre (in the "mainstream" world) so perhaps they're still finding their footing... sounds as though it might be moving in a better direction, anyway!
Yes, please post your m/m recs! I'd forgotten that you taunt us with the idea of that now and then... *g*
Reply
MJ Pearson has written some great stuff...The Price of Temptation and Discreet Young Gentleman...both historical, although the covers are very lurid, to say the least!
Reply
Thanks for the recs, just what I want! I shall look out for Pearson! That's the trouble with delving into a new genre, it's so hard to find good stuff unless someone gives you recs... I do love lj... *g* Simples! *vbg*
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