wow i didn't feel at all like watching every episode of supernatural in season 3 was like a slap in the face. but then again I don't watch the show for anything other than the dynamic between Sam and Dean and the supernatural aspect of it. i consider myself a feminist but i don't get all up in arms when a woman who's clearly being a bitch is called one or anything of that nature. i'm not saying that your feelings towards the show aren't warranted though, because it obviously bothers you, but I just don't get upset about it. How do you feel when women call other women bitches, sluts, whores, etc?
wow i didn't feel at all like watching every episode of supernatural in season 3 was like a slap in the face. but then again I don't watch the show for anything other than the dynamic between Sam and Dean and the supernatural aspect of it.
Sam and Dean were the reason that I got hooked on the show in the first place. I loved their relationship enough that I didn't really notice anything else until I saw " Women's Work", which woke me up.
The supernatural aspect is a bit odd for me, because very rarely does television scare me (Doctor Who's "Midnight" and BtVS's "Hush" are about it), so I mostly watch that part of it with a different viewpoint than someone who gets spooked (like my roommate).
How do you feel when women call other women bitches, sluts, whores, etc?I don't say them myself. I'm not a big fan of hearing them, except in the context of reclamation
( ... )
I haven't seen that vid yet but I'll check it out and see what my thoughts are on it.
And I'm like you with the supernatural things and how they rarely scare me but I do find it interesting and entertaining at least.
I do feel like Kripke at least did SOMETHING right though because I feel like Ruby, Bela and Jo were particularly strong characters, although you are free to disagree with me obviously. I do however think that Dean is an incredibly sexist character since he just seems to see women as sex objects and doesn't give them near enough credit.
As far as gendered language goes, don't you feel like words like "asshole" and "bastard" are also gendered? Would you call that sexist language as well? Granted women can be bastards too, but in the context that it's used these days it's geared more towards men and is less about parentage. I get as angry as anyone else when women are treated unfairly and poorly but I'm just curious about your opinions.
Like I said in the post, Ruby was made me keep giving the show chances. And I liked Jo, Bela, and Ellen as well. Which is why the show's treatment of the characters hurt me so much, because I liked them and I wish that they weren't destroyed for the sake of the male characters.
As far as gendered language goes, don't you feel like words like "asshole" and "bastard" are also gendered? Would you call that sexist language as well? Granted women can be bastards too, but in the context that it's used these days it's geared more towards men and is less about parentage. I get as angry as anyone else when women are treated unfairly and poorly but I'm just curious about your opinions.Asshole is explicitly non-gendered -- we've all got one. "Prick" or "dick" is about the closest I can think of getting to an actual slur directed toward and about men (if we don't count homophobic slurs, which fall under a different category) and "cunt" is considered to be much stronger in most places
( ... )
I haven't watched SPN at all since the end of S2, so I only know of the increased sexism from fandom. It does sound pretty bad, and I'm not really sure what the PTB were going for, there. However, I also heard via fandom that Season 4 makes great strides to rectify the women-bashing of Season 3. Again, I haven't watched it at all, but that's what I heard. Which, if true, gives me hope :)
I do hope that it's getting better. It was... painful to be in fandom in S3 when all this stuff starting becoming a bigger issue -- there were a lot of people arguing that the sexism was non-existent or (worse) all right because 'boys will be boys'.
A lot of it seems to stem from when Ben Edlund joined the writing staff -- his episodes in S3 were also some of the most painfully sexist (he wrote an episode called "Malleus Maleficarum". All the women/witches in it died, but, don't worry, the boys managed to save the cheating husband from death! And we got the lovely tidbit that "all witches are whores." Yes. Thanks for that, show).
I mean, S4 could hardly have been worse. They didn't have any lower to go.
I wish I had your strength and could stop watching SPN. I think what icks me - in addition to the fool language - is that women seem to fit into two categories. The victim or the slutty demon. Which means they're either being rescued or the show provides a way to excuse male violence against women. Even Ruby who is supposed to be "good" gets roughed up by Sam and Dean all the time, and I *think* we're supposed to believe it's okay because she's a demon. It's... very disturbing.
I think that the relationship wouldn't have been as complex without dealing with what is possibly the most alien aspect of the Doctor. Having Rose go through that experience and come out the other side still loving the Doctor is, for example, what makes the ending in "Journey's End" work for me.Ooh, that's a really interesting point. On the other hand, I've wondered that if Ten HAD regenerated into Eleven at the end of TSL if it would have been even more difficult for them. I know they would have still loved each other (it is the Doctor and Rose), but Ten and
( ... )
I wish I had your strength and could stop watching SPN.
The boys' relationship is very shiny. I mean, I still remember it fondly.
women seem to fit into two categories. The victim or the slutty demon. Which means they're either being rescued or the show provides a way to excuse male violence against women. Even Ruby who is supposed to be "good" gets roughed up by Sam and Dean all the time, and I *think* we're supposed to believe it's okay because she's a demon. It's... very disturbing.
Exactly. In the earlier two seasons, we sometimes got strong, good women who could fight back. There weren't any of those in S3 (can't speak for S4).
Ten and Rose got on SO WELL that adjusting to a new personality and body after Rose had been gone for years was probably a terrifying prospect. At least, that's what Rose's reaction suggests to me.
It would be very scary. I mean, you search all that time to find a guy and he goes and changes himself all around. Even if you know that all the most important parts of him are still there, it's not
( ... )
women seem to fit into two categories. The victim or the slutty demon.
This is why I loved Bela - and I'm one of the very few who did. When we first met her, she was neither of those. I was very disappointed with what happened to her; I know she was hated by a lot of fans and I wonder if that had something to do with it.
But when she first appeared onscreen? She was mysterious and strong and I liked that.
He does focus a lot on young women, probably because he's aware that they're the most vulnerable. I think that Dollhouse has the potential to be a very strong feminist statement. Because attempting to mold women into what other people need is exactly what culture tries to do, every day. Like he did with many things in Buffy, he's taking something that exists in society and making it obviously painful and monstrous and wrong. I didn't even think of the show that way. Damn it I can't wait to watch it now.
Yeah Season 3 pretty much killed most of it not all my squee for Supernatural and it has not recovered since. :( Not even a hot guy with wings is saving the show for me. Thankfully I found Merlin and BSG for five more episodes.
Comments 15
Reply
Sam and Dean were the reason that I got hooked on the show in the first place. I loved their relationship enough that I didn't really notice anything else until I saw " Women's Work", which woke me up.
The supernatural aspect is a bit odd for me, because very rarely does television scare me (Doctor Who's "Midnight" and BtVS's "Hush" are about it), so I mostly watch that part of it with a different viewpoint than someone who gets spooked (like my roommate).
How do you feel when women call other women bitches, sluts, whores, etc?I don't say them myself. I'm not a big fan of hearing them, except in the context of reclamation ( ... )
Reply
And I'm like you with the supernatural things and how they rarely scare me but I do find it interesting and entertaining at least.
I do feel like Kripke at least did SOMETHING right though because I feel like Ruby, Bela and Jo were particularly strong characters, although you are free to disagree with me obviously. I do however think that Dean is an incredibly sexist character since he just seems to see women as sex objects and doesn't give them near enough credit.
As far as gendered language goes, don't you feel like words like "asshole" and "bastard" are also gendered? Would you call that sexist language as well? Granted women can be bastards too, but in the context that it's used these days it's geared more towards men and is less about parentage. I get as angry as anyone else when women are treated unfairly and poorly but I'm just curious about your opinions.
Reply
As far as gendered language goes, don't you feel like words like "asshole" and "bastard" are also gendered? Would you call that sexist language as well? Granted women can be bastards too, but in the context that it's used these days it's geared more towards men and is less about parentage. I get as angry as anyone else when women are treated unfairly and poorly but I'm just curious about your opinions.Asshole is explicitly non-gendered -- we've all got one. "Prick" or "dick" is about the closest I can think of getting to an actual slur directed toward and about men (if we don't count homophobic slurs, which fall under a different category) and "cunt" is considered to be much stronger in most places ( ... )
Reply
Reply
A lot of it seems to stem from when Ben Edlund joined the writing staff -- his episodes in S3 were also some of the most painfully sexist (he wrote an episode called "Malleus Maleficarum". All the women/witches in it died, but, don't worry, the boys managed to save the cheating husband from death! And we got the lovely tidbit that "all witches are whores." Yes. Thanks for that, show).
I mean, S4 could hardly have been worse. They didn't have any lower to go.
Reply
Reply
I think that the relationship wouldn't have been as complex without dealing with what is possibly the most alien aspect of the Doctor. Having Rose go through that experience and come out the other side still loving the Doctor is, for example, what makes the ending in "Journey's End" work for me.Ooh, that's a really interesting point. On the other hand, I've wondered that if Ten HAD regenerated into Eleven at the end of TSL if it would have been even more difficult for them. I know they would have still loved each other (it is the Doctor and Rose), but Ten and ( ... )
Reply
The boys' relationship is very shiny. I mean, I still remember it fondly.
women seem to fit into two categories. The victim or the slutty demon. Which means they're either being rescued or the show provides a way to excuse male violence against women. Even Ruby who is supposed to be "good" gets roughed up by Sam and Dean all the time, and I *think* we're supposed to believe it's okay because she's a demon. It's... very disturbing.
Exactly. In the earlier two seasons, we sometimes got strong, good women who could fight back. There weren't any of those in S3 (can't speak for S4).
Ten and Rose got on SO WELL that adjusting to a new personality and body after Rose had been gone for years was probably a terrifying prospect. At least, that's what Rose's reaction suggests to me.
It would be very scary. I mean, you search all that time to find a guy and he goes and changes himself all around. Even if you know that all the most important parts of him are still there, it's not ( ... )
Reply
This is why I loved Bela - and I'm one of the very few who did. When we first met her, she was neither of those. I was very disappointed with what happened to her; I know she was hated by a lot of fans and I wonder if that had something to do with it.
But when she first appeared onscreen? She was mysterious and strong and I liked that.
Reply
I didn't even think of the show that way. Damn it I can't wait to watch it now.
Reply
*waits impatiently*
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment