Comments | butterfly: The Phantom Menace...

butterfly

The Phantom Menace...

Jun 17, 2005 07:30

May or may not have made me cry.

In about five places.

It's just... he's so sweet and young and cute. And then he falls and becomes Darth Vader and I'm sad about it. And the total suckiness of Qui-Gon dying like that was made very clear to me, because Qui-Gon got how important the 'mom' thing was to Anakin. And Obi-Wan didn't. Because he never ( Read more... )

star_wars, republic trilogy, qui-gon, obi-wan, opinion, anakin, padmé

Comments 10

millefiori June 17 2005, 14:59:01 UTC

butterfly June 17 2005, 15:10:12 UTC

Ooohhh--I'd never really given any consideration to what things might've been like for Anakin if Qui-Gon had lived, but I think you're right. I think it would've been very hard on Obi-Wan, but I think if Qui-Gon had been Anakin's master Anakin might not've turned to the dark side.

And if Qui-Gon had been Anakin's Master, then Obi-Wan would have felt better about the relationship that he clearly wanted to have with Anakin -- he wanted to play big brother, not father at all. If their relationship hadn't been confused by those conflicting desires, it would have been even stronger. If, of course, they became friends at all and Obi-Wan worked past his resentment. I would want them to -- they work extremely well together, as partners and friends, and Anakin is even more reckless than Obi-Wan, as far as Padawans go.

I wonder if during all that time alone in the desert (communing with Qui Gon!) Obi-Wan came to that conclusion, as well.

I think that Obi-Wan came to the conclusion that anyone would have been a better master. But he carried ( ... )

storydivagirl June 17 2005, 15:31:29 UTC

That's an interesting thought about Qui-Gon and how his influence would've affect Anakin - because you're right. Obi-Wan is much more like an older brother - he even says that's how he views Anakin, as a brother, in the third film.

Despite some of the really bad dialogue, the one thing the three movies do well, is really play up the whole tragedy through the simplest things - like Padme's vote, etc.

butterfly June 17 2005, 18:02:23 UTC

That's an interesting thought about Qui-Gon and how his influence would've affect Anakin - because you're right. Obi-Wan is much more like an older brother - he even says that's how he views Anakin, as a brother, in the third film.

Of course, if Qui-Gon had lived, Obi-Wan might have resented Anakin, instead of viewing training him as fulfilling his Master's last wish. It's a complicated question, wondering the 'might have been's.

selenak June 17 2005, 17:36:57 UTC

It's just... he's so sweet and young and cute.

Yes, he is. And the goodbye scene with Shmi makes me misty-eyed especially. "Don't look back." But he does. He always does. And you think: how can he help it? "Then we'll see each other again."

Was so incredibly impressed by Natalie as Padme/Amidala this time around. She looks like she wants to cry, just before she casts the vote of 'no confidence' in the current Chancellor, and she's smart enough to be wary of Palpatine's promises. Brave and principled and god, how much does it suck for her that she was the person who put Palpatine in power.

That's part of her own tragedy - she so wants to do the right thing for her people, and she can't just sit around there and let her world be occupied while a committee is put together... but by taking his advice, she hands him over the galaxy. And yet, how could she have not acted? She had to save her people.

Though, if it hadn't been her, it would have been someone else -- Palpatine seems pretty flexible at this point. He's clearly surprised by ( ... )

butterfly June 17 2005, 18:14:11 UTC

Yes, he is. And the goodbye scene with Shmi makes me misty-eyed especially. "Don't look back." But he does. He always does. And you think: how can he help it? "Then we'll see each other again."

And how this echoes with Anakin and Luke, at the end of the Imperial Trilogy -- Anakin knows how important convincing Luke that saving who Anakin is was more important than saving Anakin's life, because he didn't learn that lesson from the death of his mother.

That's part of her own tragedy - she so wants to do the right thing for her people, and she can't just sit around there and let her world be occupied while a committee is put together... but by taking his advice, she hands him over the galaxy. And yet, how could she have not acted? She had to save her people.

She really was in a no-win situation. No matter what happened on Naboo, Palpatine would win.

He went from being a Padawan straight so someone who had to fulfill the function of Master and father both, and the second is nothing the Jedi Temple could have prepared him for, because ( ... )

selenak June 17 2005, 18:28:31 UTC

And how this echoes with Anakin and Luke, at the end of the Imperial Trilogy -- Anakin knows how important convincing Luke that saving who Anakin is was more important than saving Anakin's life, because he didn't learn that lesson from the death of his mother.

Yes, there is a strong echo of Shmi's death in Anakin's, only this time instead of setting more darkness in motion, it's a moment of grace and salvation.

And yet, despite all that, Anakin clearly does prefer Obi-Wan.

Oh yes. If you had asked him at any point after TPM whether he'd have wanted another Master, including dead Qui-Gon, I think he'd have declined. Once he had started to bond with Obi-Wan, that was that.

And it's always when Obi-Wan isn't there that Anakin makes his darkest choices.True. I also don't think it's a coincidence Obi-Wan is the first who is supposed to get executed by Order 66. Palpatine saw early in RotS that Anakin wasn't ready to leave Obi-Wan behind, and undoubtedly made that a priority. Even at the end, Obi-Wan is the first to ignite his ( ... )

logovo June 17 2005, 18:43:30 UTC

Just to let you know, I'm greedily devouring all your RotS posts. Excellent reading.

butterfly June 18 2005, 23:14:32 UTC

Thank you! That's very cool to know.

avrelia June 19 2005, 18:02:20 UTC

I lost your post I actually wanted to comment on, so it will go there - I love all your observations about Star Wars, and I often wonder myself, how would it affect the story if Qui-Gon had lived and trained Anakin himself.

What I wanted to say:

I rewatched all movies after seeing the episode III, even though I like it less than you, it really holds evrything together now, and the "Imperial Trilogy" looks so differernt now, that I know who is under that black helmet. And I was so much happier to watch the Return of Jedi, and the confrontation between Luke, Darth Vader and the Emperor...