The end justifies the means?

[buffymods]

Continuing with another Giles' poll.
We all know what he did in Helpless. Question is: do you justify his actions?

Your Mods,

Tabi and Pam

Comments

[leni_ba]

If he wouldn't have had a choice, perhaps. If he'd thought that the Council would not only fire him, but take him away, leaving Buffy without a Watcher she could trust whose knowledge she could trust. Or if he'd known that the Council would test Buffy in worse ways if the Cruciamentum was a no-go... Perhaps I'd understand then.

But at no point does the Council attempt to remove Giles from Sunnydale against his will, nor is there talk of punishment for the Slayer. Imho, Giles chose being the Slayer's Watcher over the Slayer herself.

[juliet316]

I kind of disagree with that. Just because a threat to of the Council's intervention wasn't implicitly stated onscreen, you can see Giles' reluctance to go through with the ritual in how ASH showed the character's body language and tone. It's completely possible to me and there was a conversation early on where Giles asked if this was absolutely necessary. In my head it's completely possible that there was a conversation pre - episode where Travers did indeed issue such a threat of reassigning Buffy a Watcher who would be more than willing to go through with the Cruciamentum and would have more than likely watched coldly while Buffy died in the attempt and perhaps equally coldly while Faith inevitably had to go through with it. The fact that Giles does intervene and save Buffy and Joyce at the end speaks to me far more volumes than the inital betrayal itself

[leni_ba]

Yes, saving Buffy does redeem him. But he gets fired for it, just as he would have gotten fired if he hadn't injected her in the first place or, even better, if he'd have told her about the ritual.

He will not risk his career for Buffy's sake, but he will do it when he sees the consequences. (I'd even say he steps in out of guilt, but he did feel guilty through the whole episode). Seeing Buffy scared and confused is not enough to come out with the truth; it takes Buffy and Joyce getting almost killed for him to do it.

Well, redemtion is the theme of the Buffyverse, I guess.

As for off-screen meetings... okay. It could be that there was one. But, as a rule, if a scene wasn't important enough to shoot it, or at least make reference to it, then it couldn't have too important for characterisation.

[hunenka]

I agree. I can totally see a scene where Giles tries to persuade the Council not to do this, and when he sees that they'd do it anyway, he decides it's the best for Buffy if he was there.

I'm sure it must have been a terrible decision for Giles, because he knew how Buffy would react if she found out, and he surely knew that her shock and disappointment was justified. But if he refused to do what he had to, the Council would probably send him away and give Buffy a new Watcher who wouldn't care about her as much as Giles did (as he proved when he went against the Councils' rules in the end).

Of course I absolutely feel with Buffy when she finds out Giles had betrayed her. It's a very powerful and moving episode, both from Buffy's and Giles' point of view. Also it's not only black-and-white, and that's what I like about it.

Furthermore, we have to remember that obviously every Slayer in the past had to go through the Cruciamentum, so this really wasn't just a stupid "evil Giles trying to hurt Buffy" scenario...

[ms_scarletibis]

Considering that she was only a slayer in the first place cause a bunch of dudes magicked up the powers to make one young girl or woman fight off the demons, it can't be that much of a surprise that as time progressed, they'd want her skill to surpass her physical prowess. And if the former isn't deemed as wrong or awful, I'm not sure how logically it would make sense for one to be objectionable to the latter. Either way you slice it, part of her destiny was set in motion by people not her, and it makes sense that they'd want her to be able to perform to the best of her abilities. So in that sense, Giles succeeded as a Watcher.

He then succeeds as a father (figure) when he makes her aware of what is happening, and stops watching in order to step into the fray to help her with Kralik.

[frelling_tralk]

No, Buffy trusted him and we see in the episode that even Giles knew what he was doing was wrong as he eventually does turn his back on the counsel

[rpowell]

No, it wasn't justified. In the end, the Watchers Council's actions against him didn't mean squat. Buffy barely paid attention to Wesley. She still continued to consult Giles.

And Giles' action was also a disturbing preclude to his actions in "The Gift", when he killed Ben and his betrayal in Season 7's "Lies My Parents Told Me".

[lynnenne]

I picked "No," because I think even Giles knew his actions were unjustifiable. That's why he came to his senses, in the end, and defied the Council. He knew he was in the wrong, and he wanted to try to make it right.

[staringiscaring]

Exactly. The council did this as a way to weed through 'weak' slayers since there was always another girl waiting and a cover for assassinating the unruly ones.