I can see Lee being at peace at the end, but I feel the series did an inadequate job of getting Lee to that point. Lee let go of a lot of baggage in Season 4 (disclaimer: no, I don't see Kara as being baggage, but I do think he stopped obsessing over the possibility of he and Kara being anything more than what they were to each other) and once they reached earth I saw him, for better or worse, living in the moment and seeing a world of possibility open to him. I have to say I am a bit disappointed that I have to make an intuitive leap when it comes to Lee in the finale when more time could have been dedicated to his arc, Kara's arc, Laura's arc, instead of wasting time on subplots that went nowhere, like Caprica's pregnancy
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I feel the series did an inadequate job of getting Lee to that point ABSOLUTELY. I wanted that journey--I really wanted to see Lee get some peace at the end, but they didn't write a journey I found convincing.
I have to say I am a bit disappointed that I have to make an intuitive leap when it comes to Lee in the finale I'm more than a bit disappointed. I'm livid. My reactions are OTT--I've never felt this strongly about a TV series or character before and it's a little bit insane, I admit it, but that's how it is for me. I hope I'm never like this again about anything. I had to make intuitive leaps about Lee throughout season 4, and I had to swallow a bunch of shit like 4.10 where he suddenly got onboard with Kara's mystical bullshit. I didn't want to have to swallow more in the finale.
I wish Ron, Jamie, and others hadn't used it since, yes, there is an implication that Kara was merely a pawn of ''God' and destinyYes, I wish they'd stop saying it. I don't blame Jamie, he's just giving the party line his own twist. I blame Ron. Ron
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I don't feel like there's anything about the "angel" crap that is supposed to be about Kara herself Yeah, and I get why Jamie's not focussed on that (he wasn't playing Kara!) but I don't get how RDM and the ENTIRE WRITING TEAM could have forgotten about Kara as a character.
What was interesting about the whole idea of destiny--and I admit I did find it interesting for much of the series--was that these were ordinary, flawed individuals struggling with it and against it. Yeah, like you I did find it interesting--but the part I found interesting was the struggle and the ambiguity. The finale was sooooooooooooooo reductive. I can't think of a better word than that, I keep coming back to it. And I totally agree that Kara's dehumanisation is part of a larger canvas of the complete obliteration of the female characters on the show
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Boppy, I agree with you completely, but I gotta take what I can get at this point. As ridiculously mystical as Kara being an "angel" is and as much as I wish I could just discard the finale and its canon....that's what the show gave us. I am latching on to every positive K/L comment being made right now. Sad but true.
Just be glad you can. If I had access to some sort of emotional comfort or release I'd be snatching it too. But instead everything about the show triggers rage or tears in me. I envy those of you who can find a silver lining. As always.
I'm of two minds about JB's latest comments. My initial reaction was just sheer appreciation for (and relief at, tbh) his being as much of a shipper as ever and saying such beautiful things about pilots and their relationship overall. And I do still feel that he was just making the most of the material he got and doing his job--he *had* to make it work for himself and for his character in order to act it (even if I personally don't agree with his being able to see Lee making the decisions he made in the finale or reacting the way he did to Kara's disappearance). I also still incredibly garateful to him for finding what beauty he could and giving us the tiniest (*tiniest*) bit of comfort with those words--after all, he could have fed us what RDM was trying to push in the finale: that Kara and Lee were just obsessed with each other (completely ignoring their deep friendship and 4-season journey!)/doomed from the start/stuck on the table/wtf-ever. So I think I'm taking what I can and trying to take solace in the fact that at least one
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I agree that Jamie had to make it work for himself. I understand that. I'm just still angry that that's what he was given to work with... and I do find it admirable that Jamie can find beauty in it. I just wish I could see that myself, and I don't personally feel very comforted. Though it's fabulous that fans like yourself can feel so! I guess I just would rather have heard Jamie talk about what Kara meant to Lee as a living, breathing human being... like if he'd mentioned that Lee had gone through a grieving process when Kara died. And if the show had actually shown Lee *knowing* or at the very least guessing that her return was impermanent. Sigh
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Hey, bop. Sorry it's taken me so long, but I did want to reply to this.
I'm just still angry that that's what he was given to work with...
Oh, I completely, 100% agree. All of my anger is directed at one person: Ron D. Moore. That finale's awfulness is all on him, imo. (And I hope all his future projects are giant flops. Heh.)
guess I just would rather have heard Jamie talk about what Kara meant to Lee as a living, breathing human being... like if he'd mentioned that Lee had gone through a grieving process when Kara died.That's a great point, and I hope one day he will, because yeah--it's the real living, breathing, screwed up girl that he loved, not the martyr of destiny RDM painted her as in the end
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I think all future RDM projects may well be flops... he's lost all integrity in his writing, and I can't see his ego reining that in again any time soon.
she said the writers gave Kara the ending they did because they ran out of ideas. Oh good on her! :) I do like that she said that. Apparently she's the only one brave enough to criticise. I don't blame her for choosing K/S over K/L when RDM was giving so little direction on where that relationship was going.
I believe Tahmoh Penikett got Helo's ending changed Another one! Yikes. Which characters DID RDM hold firm on? Any of them?
that's his own weakness as a storyteller coming through and isn't the actors' fault at all No, it's not the actors' fault. The writer should have more integrity than that. And honestly, if the writer had a clear enough vision of where each character was going and why, the actors wouldn't want to change the endings because they'd appreciate their place in the grander story. Heh. That didn't happen.
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ABSOLUTELY. I wanted that journey--I really wanted to see Lee get some peace at the end, but they didn't write a journey I found convincing.
I have to say I am a bit disappointed that I have to make an intuitive leap when it comes to Lee in the finale
I'm more than a bit disappointed. I'm livid. My reactions are OTT--I've never felt this strongly about a TV series or character before and it's a little bit insane, I admit it, but that's how it is for me. I hope I'm never like this again about anything. I had to make intuitive leaps about Lee throughout season 4, and I had to swallow a bunch of shit like 4.10 where he suddenly got onboard with Kara's mystical bullshit. I didn't want to have to swallow more in the finale.
I wish Ron, Jamie, and others hadn't used it since, yes, there is an implication that Kara was merely a pawn of ''God' and destinyYes, I wish they'd stop saying it. I don't blame Jamie, he's just giving the party line his own twist. I blame Ron. Ron ( ... )
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Yeah, and I get why Jamie's not focussed on that (he wasn't playing Kara!) but I don't get how RDM and the ENTIRE WRITING TEAM could have forgotten about Kara as a character.
What was interesting about the whole idea of destiny--and I admit I did find it interesting for much of the series--was that these were ordinary, flawed individuals struggling with it and against it.
Yeah, like you I did find it interesting--but the part I found interesting was the struggle and the ambiguity. The finale was sooooooooooooooo reductive. I can't think of a better word than that, I keep coming back to it. And I totally agree that Kara's dehumanisation is part of a larger canvas of the complete obliteration of the female characters on the show ( ... )
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I'm just still angry that that's what he was given to work with...
Oh, I completely, 100% agree. All of my anger is directed at one person: Ron D. Moore. That finale's awfulness is all on him, imo. (And I hope all his future projects are giant flops. Heh.)
guess I just would rather have heard Jamie talk about what Kara meant to Lee as a living, breathing human being... like if he'd mentioned that Lee had gone through a grieving process when Kara died.That's a great point, and I hope one day he will, because yeah--it's the real living, breathing, screwed up girl that he loved, not the martyr of destiny RDM painted her as in the end ( ... )
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she said the writers gave Kara the ending they did because they ran out of ideas.
Oh good on her! :) I do like that she said that. Apparently she's the only one brave enough to criticise. I don't blame her for choosing K/S over K/L when RDM was giving so little direction on where that relationship was going.
I believe Tahmoh Penikett got Helo's ending changed
Another one! Yikes. Which characters DID RDM hold firm on? Any of them?
that's his own weakness as a storyteller coming through and isn't the actors' fault at all
No, it's not the actors' fault. The writer should have more integrity than that. And honestly, if the writer had a clear enough vision of where each character was going and why, the actors wouldn't want to change the endings because they'd appreciate their place in the grander story. Heh. That didn't happen.
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