We are so on the same page with EVERYTHING. Um, yeah, especially the new BEST PILOTICIAN SCENE EVER. Holy crap. I thought I had squeezed all the analysis out of it that I could but you got even more!
And you're so right how incredibly selfless Kara is in their scene, considering that she's in the brig under suspicion of being a cylon and can still put on a happy face for him. Oh, Kara.
I liked the Lee/Dee scene as well. Kandyse was really good and while Dee was obviously there because she loves Lee, there was still that little tinge of betrayal in her eyes. But things will be alright between them now, I think.
I noticed Roslin running off after the ceremony as well! Interesting, considering I think there was a promo shot of them shaking hands and everything. Must've been intentional to cut that out.
Wheeeee!! Yay, I must rush to your post then... :D
And you're so right how incredibly selfless Kara is in their scene, considering that she's in the brig under suspicion of being a cylon and can still put on a happy face for him. Oh, Kara. Yeah, Kara being selfless is SO TOTALLY IRRESISTABLE. I feel all achy for her and couldn't love her more right now.
Kandyse was really good and while Dee was obviously there because she loves Lee, there was still that little tinge of betrayal in her eyes. Yeah, it was well played by Kandyse. And she really deliberately composed herself after Lee said 'take care of yourself' as if she was putting up her emotional walls again. I do think they'll be fine now. Amicable but separate.
nteresting, considering I think there was a promo shot of them shaking hands and everything. Must've been intentional to cut that out. Wow, was there? That would have been pretty 'wtf' given how cold Roslin's been to him since the trial.
The Kara and Laura dynamic is fascinating. Both believe they have destinies that involve leading humanity to earth. Both are willing to die to achieve their goal. And both believe they are right. I've seen people comment they are angry at Laura for not even contemplating Kara may be right. I understand Laura's reasoning for distrusting her, but it's also clear that Kara isn't willing to even think about the possibility she may be wrong. Someone is going to be gutted by the outcome of this journey and I think it's going to be Laura
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I've seen people comment they are angry at Laura for not even contemplating Kara may be right. I understand Laura's reasoning for distrusting her Yeah, me too. I can see quite clearly where Laura's coming from, and I can't say that in her position I wouldn't also resist Kara's message just as strongly. I was a little annoyed by Laura but only by her insularity and bitterness towards Lee, not her approach to Kara.
Part of the problem is she was such a minor character prior to 'Crossroads' we don't know anything about her, nor do we care about her. And, frankly, I don't think the actress has much range. Have we seen more than two expressions from her?I feel that too, but I know a couple of people on my f'list find her compelling. I'll be interested to see what they made of this material. It was the weakest part of the episode for me
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Hey Bop. Been thinking about you and Kara. I didn't want to spoil you, but my reading of Kara came from UB-EX, He Who Believeth, and Six of One. I wonder if you connect more with this version of Kara because she does show emotion and is easier to read. Everything is sort of out there. But it killed me to see her freaking out alone in the brig and Adama walking away. I wanted to hurt him in that moment for leaving her alone like that. It's actually hard for me to watch her shrieking.
OMG, how I cried! I was so startled and moved. Aww, Bop, they played Wander My Friends! *hugs*
I do feel for Laura--that's a testament to the acting, I think--but I believe Kara. Me too! Me too! Me too!
And yeah, maybe she just needed them from ANYone right now, but I choose to believe she needed them from Lee. No, Lee. Lee, Lee, Lee. He's her best friend, she needed him.
I'm so so happy that Lee's following his heart, but I will miss him SO much as pilot and CAG.I can't quite believe that we won't see them fly together again, that just doesn't seem
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I wonder if you connect more with this version of Kara because she does show emotion and is easier to read. I do. I definitely think that's it. It's the same with Sam in 'He who believeth'. I finally felt like I had access to his emotional state, so he was instantly more sympathetic to me. It probably points at a weakness of mine: I'm drawn to people who wear their hearts on their sleeves, and I'm confused by people that guard their emotions or put up fronts.
But it killed me to see her freaking out alone in the brig and Adama walking away. I can only begin to imagine. It killed ME, and I can't even contemplate my rage if it had been Lee.
I can't quite believe that we won't see them fly together again, that just doesn't seem right. Yeah that feels weird. I wished we'd seen a little more of them flying together in 4.01 if that's to be the case. But I think there's still potential to seem them reunite in the sky again--either in a final battle where everyone pitches in, or in a memorial or something.
I do. I definitely think that's it. It's the same with Sam in 'He who believeth'. I finally felt like I had access to his emotional state, so he was instantly more sympathetic to me.It's interesting to me. On one hand, I feel I was always running on instinct with Kara and even other characters, and it's always nice to get one's instincts confirmed. And it's great that other people like you can more easily understand her. On the other hand, I'm not sure why Kara is so open with her emotions. Unless it's desperation and serious emotional stress, like when she tells Laura that these people are all she has. I knew that. I wish it didn't take her coming so low to verbalize it. I also think that part of me likes when character's feelings are hidden and you have to dig for them. Lee was like that for me and I like him all the more because I had to struggle very hard to understand him. He's all the dearer because I know now why his walls were up
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On one hand, I feel I was always running on instinct with Kara and even other characters, and it's always nice to get one's instincts confirmed Yeah I've had that feeling on more than one occasion with Lee when we've had something new revealed about him.
I also think that part of me likes when character's feelings are hidden and you have to dig for them That's kind of sweet. I was talking last night to my RL best friend whoe was my guide for all things Kara before I was really in BSG fandom, and she too laughed at me not seeing any change in Kara. She said Kara was really different, but she said she actually felt Kara was calmer and more grounded underneath the emotional torrent now. I think she was suggesting that beneath all this, Kara's actually more sure of herself than ever before. And I can see that in the scene with Laura. It's the sort of shift you might expect from someone who's gone through a religious/spiritual experience, I guess. It sounds like her take on Kara's a little different from yours.
Kara's 'except me' line was very WTF to me. (And I'm sure Kara fans will scream at me for that!)
Hee! As I said in my post, I interpreted that line as her referring to his "No" in TaB. Her face immediately falls. Not really bitter so much as a sad self-recrimination. Of course WE know that Lee's talking about the breadth of their relationship, and I don't think he picks up on what Kara means there.
It's interesting, because whatever epiphany Kara might've achieved in "Maelstrom", Lee isn't part of that. I don't think she blames him at all for not choosing her -- she looks at it more as "Yeah, I frakked up my chance with him."
And what's really interesting to me is that, as I said to a friend's post last night, I'm convinced that since "Maelstrom", Katee has been deliberately playing Kara as in love with Lee. It's so clear on her face during the viper wing scene and especially here, when she holds his hand. See what I mean?
As I said in my post, I interpreted that line as her referring to his "No" in TaB. Her face immediately falls. Not really bitter so much as a sad self-recrimination. That makes logical sense to me, and I read that in your post, but I struggle to follow/see it when I watch the scene myself. I do see the streak of self-recrimination there though--I think that's what threw me.
Of course WE know that Lee's talking about the breadth of their relationship, and I don't think he picks up on what Kara means there. No. Well I'm still convinced he thinks Kara rejected *him* just as much as he rejected her in TAB. She walked off on him so quickly after the barely-there 'proposal' and he looked so baffled. I think he's told himself all this time that she wouldn't really have followed through with it anyway, and she went back to Sam so quickly after all... So the idea that he turned her down is not foremost in Lee's mind at all.
I don't think she blames him at all for not choosing her -- she looks at it more as "Yeah, I frakked up my chance with
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No. Well I'm still convinced he thinks Kara rejected *him* just as much as he rejected her in TAB.
Oh, I agree with your assessment of Lee's thoughts. Like you did there, I was looking at the scene entirely from Kara's POV. No, she didn't give him a chance, and she definitely handled the whole thing badly. But I believe that in her mind, she took this huge, terrifying risk by asking him the first place, and when he didn't immediately take her up on it, she panicked and lost her nerve. All she could see was that he rejected her, even if WE know that he had very valid reasons for not responding the way she'd expected. That's my take on it (from her POV), especially after the scene in the bar in which she looks at him like, "Yeah, I was stupid to think he'd choose me."
I do. Maelstrom was the first episode in which I ever believed Kara loved Lee. And I felt it again watching this one. It warms my heart a great deal. I'm not sure why Katee shifted into this acting style now and not before, but I'll take it anyway. ;)Yes. ;) I can'
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t I believe that in her mind, she took this huge, terrifying risk by asking him the first place, and when he didn't immediately take her up on it, she panicked and lost her nerve. Yeah, I agree--from Kara pov, and you're right that the scene in the bar showed us her feelings on that score pretty clearly.
I suppose perhaps she saw that rejection in TaB as Kara's epiphany about how much she really does love him. Perhaps. Or perhaps it was slightly earlier than that even. To me her admission to Sam seemed like a big moment for Kara. It was the first time she verbally came out of denial, and I think admitting aloud that she had at least conflicted feelings for Lee was a big thing. But then that doesn't account for her chatting to Sharon about Lee in the extended UB ... ok, scratch that. *thinking aloud*
Not that I necessarily want that -- I'm really looking forward to him in the Quorum! Oh me too!
But now that she has come back, I suspect that if she'd followed the kiss by saying, "Stay with me, Lee," then he would've done so (or at
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Thank goodness for the Cylon parts of this episode--they were the only bits I wasn't bawling through. Wow.
yeah. Despite anticipating an emotionally charged episode, I really had no idea.
You can really see how far she's distanced herself from thinking of Kara as a human being.
Agreed. It was really cold. The more passionate Kara got, the less moved Laura became.
And the fact he lashes out at Kara physically makes me nauseous. I can't even talk properly about Adama yet. I was sort of okay when he slammed her to the ground (I get the high tension situation), but I found the final shove, making sure her head smacked hard into the deck was too much and it pushed me over the edge. I can't handle seeing Kara get hurt when she's not fighting back
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Yeah, I found Adama just horrible to Kara in this episode. More so than ever before, for me. I *try* to see his point of view but I can't get over the fact that he seriously needs to find a healthier way of relating to people. And I don't even see him trying to find that.
I see a lot of people found the Lee farewell toast a bit jarring. I don't really think the whole party was for Lee: it seemed more like a post-combat celebration--they had to drag him out of a corner. I kind of felt it's the sort of crazy emotional lurch between scenes that we get a lot in BSG, and I could see that for the whole crew it was important to say farewell to Lee. And I was glad he toasted his crew. But it felt wrong not to have Kara there.
t was like getting the blessing of the crew or something. And shock, horror, I didn't mind the Dee scene. It was a perfect fizzle of an ending to a lacklustre pairing. Lee was a pretty decent guy throwing her a bone saying he would miss her and I kind of liked the way she refused to return the sentiment *heh*Hee. I'm
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And you're so right how incredibly selfless Kara is in their scene, considering that she's in the brig under suspicion of being a cylon and can still put on a happy face for him. Oh, Kara.
I liked the Lee/Dee scene as well. Kandyse was really good and while Dee was obviously there because she loves Lee, there was still that little tinge of betrayal in her eyes. But things will be alright between them now, I think.
I noticed Roslin running off after the ceremony as well! Interesting, considering I think there was a promo shot of them shaking hands and everything. Must've been intentional to cut that out.
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And you're so right how incredibly selfless Kara is in their scene, considering that she's in the brig under suspicion of being a cylon and can still put on a happy face for him. Oh, Kara.
Yeah, Kara being selfless is SO TOTALLY IRRESISTABLE. I feel all achy for her and couldn't love her more right now.
Kandyse was really good and while Dee was obviously there because she loves Lee, there was still that little tinge of betrayal in her eyes.
Yeah, it was well played by Kandyse. And she really deliberately composed herself after Lee said 'take care of yourself' as if she was putting up her emotional walls again. I do think they'll be fine now. Amicable but separate.
nteresting, considering I think there was a promo shot of them shaking hands and everything. Must've been intentional to cut that out.
Wow, was there? That would have been pretty 'wtf' given how cold Roslin's been to him since the trial.
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Yeah, me too. I can see quite clearly where Laura's coming from, and I can't say that in her position I wouldn't also resist Kara's message just as strongly. I was a little annoyed by Laura but only by her insularity and bitterness towards Lee, not her approach to Kara.
Part of the problem is she was such a minor character prior to 'Crossroads' we don't know anything about her, nor do we care about her. And, frankly, I don't think the actress has much range. Have we seen more than two expressions from her?I feel that too, but I know a couple of people on my f'list find her compelling. I'll be interested to see what they made of this material. It was the weakest part of the episode for me ( ... )
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OMG, how I cried! I was so startled and moved.
Aww, Bop, they played Wander My Friends! *hugs*
I do feel for Laura--that's a testament to the acting, I think--but I believe Kara.
Me too! Me too! Me too!
And yeah, maybe she just needed them from ANYone right now, but I choose to believe she needed them from Lee.
No, Lee. Lee, Lee, Lee. He's her best friend, she needed him.
I'm so so happy that Lee's following his heart, but I will miss him SO much as pilot and CAG.I can't quite believe that we won't see them fly together again, that just doesn't seem ( ... )
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I do. I definitely think that's it. It's the same with Sam in 'He who believeth'. I finally felt like I had access to his emotional state, so he was instantly more sympathetic to me. It probably points at a weakness of mine: I'm drawn to people who wear their hearts on their sleeves, and I'm confused by people that guard their emotions or put up fronts.
But it killed me to see her freaking out alone in the brig and Adama walking away.
I can only begin to imagine. It killed ME, and I can't even contemplate my rage if it had been Lee.
I can't quite believe that we won't see them fly together again, that just doesn't seem right.
Yeah that feels weird. I wished we'd seen a little more of them flying together in 4.01 if that's to be the case. But I think there's still potential to seem them reunite in the sky again--either in a final battle where everyone pitches in, or in a memorial or something.
And I'm happy to have gotten ( ... )
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Yeah I've had that feeling on more than one occasion with Lee when we've had something new revealed about him.
I also think that part of me likes when character's feelings are hidden and you have to dig for them
That's kind of sweet. I was talking last night to my RL best friend whoe was my guide for all things Kara before I was really in BSG fandom, and she too laughed at me not seeing any change in Kara. She said Kara was really different, but she said she actually felt Kara was calmer and more grounded underneath the emotional torrent now. I think she was suggesting that beneath all this, Kara's actually more sure of herself than ever before. And I can see that in the scene with Laura. It's the sort of shift you might expect from someone who's gone through a religious/spiritual experience, I guess. It sounds like her take on Kara's a little different from yours.
I just wish these ( ... )
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Hee! As I said in my post, I interpreted that line as her referring to his "No" in TaB. Her face immediately falls. Not really bitter so much as a sad self-recrimination. Of course WE know that Lee's talking about the breadth of their relationship, and I don't think he picks up on what Kara means there.
It's interesting, because whatever epiphany Kara might've achieved in "Maelstrom", Lee isn't part of that. I don't think she blames him at all for not choosing her -- she looks at it more as "Yeah, I frakked up my chance with him."
And what's really interesting to me is that, as I said to a friend's post last night, I'm convinced that since "Maelstrom", Katee has been deliberately playing Kara as in love with Lee. It's so clear on her face during the viper wing scene and especially here, when she holds his hand. See what I mean?
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That makes logical sense to me, and I read that in your post, but I struggle to follow/see it when I watch the scene myself. I do see the streak of self-recrimination there though--I think that's what threw me.
Of course WE know that Lee's talking about the breadth of their relationship, and I don't think he picks up on what Kara means there.
No. Well I'm still convinced he thinks Kara rejected *him* just as much as he rejected her in TAB. She walked off on him so quickly after the barely-there 'proposal' and he looked so baffled. I think he's told himself all this time that she wouldn't really have followed through with it anyway, and she went back to Sam so quickly after all... So the idea that he turned her down is not foremost in Lee's mind at all.
I don't think she blames him at all for not choosing her -- she looks at it more as "Yeah, I frakked up my chance with ( ... )
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Oh, I agree with your assessment of Lee's thoughts. Like you did there, I was looking at the scene entirely from Kara's POV. No, she didn't give him a chance, and she definitely handled the whole thing badly. But I believe that in her mind, she took this huge, terrifying risk by asking him the first place, and when he didn't immediately take her up on it, she panicked and lost her nerve. All she could see was that he rejected her, even if WE know that he had very valid reasons for not responding the way she'd expected. That's my take on it (from her POV), especially after the scene in the bar in which she looks at him like, "Yeah, I was stupid to think he'd choose me."
I do. Maelstrom was the first episode in which I ever believed Kara loved Lee. And I felt it again watching this one. It warms my heart a great deal. I'm not sure why Katee shifted into this acting style now and not before, but I'll take it anyway. ;)Yes. ;) I can' ( ... )
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Yeah, I agree--from Kara pov, and you're right that the scene in the bar showed us her feelings on that score pretty clearly.
I suppose perhaps she saw that rejection in TaB as Kara's epiphany about how much she really does love him.
Perhaps. Or perhaps it was slightly earlier than that even. To me her admission to Sam seemed like a big moment for Kara. It was the first time she verbally came out of denial, and I think admitting aloud that she had at least conflicted feelings for Lee was a big thing. But then that doesn't account for her chatting to Sharon about Lee in the extended UB ... ok, scratch that. *thinking aloud*
Not that I necessarily want that -- I'm really looking forward to him in the Quorum!
Oh me too!
But now that she has come back, I suspect that if she'd followed the kiss by saying, "Stay with me, Lee," then he would've done so (or at ( ... )
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yeah. Despite anticipating an emotionally charged episode, I really had no idea.
You can really see how far she's distanced herself from thinking of Kara as a human being.
Agreed. It was really cold. The more passionate Kara got, the less moved Laura became.
And the fact he lashes out at Kara physically makes me nauseous. I can't even talk properly about Adama yet. I was sort of okay when he slammed her to the ground (I get the high tension situation), but I found the final shove, making sure her head smacked hard into the deck was too much and it pushed me over the edge. I can't handle seeing Kara get hurt when she's not fighting back ( ... )
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I see a lot of people found the Lee farewell toast a bit jarring. I don't really think the whole party was for Lee: it seemed more like a post-combat celebration--they had to drag him out of a corner. I kind of felt it's the sort of crazy emotional lurch between scenes that we get a lot in BSG, and I could see that for the whole crew it was important to say farewell to Lee. And I was glad he toasted his crew. But it felt wrong not to have Kara there.
t was like getting the blessing of the crew or something. And shock, horror, I didn't mind the Dee scene. It was a perfect fizzle of an ending to a lacklustre pairing. Lee was a pretty decent guy throwing her a bone saying he would miss her and I kind of liked the way she refused to return the sentiment *heh*Hee. I'm ( ... )
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