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seiberwing December 6 2010, 22:26:31 UTC
I was considering reading that series until I found out what happened with Vanyel. Gay badassery is good for me, dead gay not so much.

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kat_nic December 6 2010, 22:33:32 UTC
Yeah, in retrospect, if you're totally new to Valdemar then it's like, huh, what? Why'd she do that? But he was a minor side character mentioned in a previous book in the series, and it was already established that he died defending the country. And when she wrote his backstory, she just "decided to make him gay".

But then she also kills lots of characters, not just the gay one. I have a real love-hate relationship with this woman's books, lol.

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seiberwing December 6 2010, 22:40:28 UTC
I have a love-hate relationship with fantasy. I like alternate worlds and adventure but I hate having random rape or half the cast die off in horrible ways.

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kat_nic December 6 2010, 23:02:12 UTC
I know; if it's not one, it's the other. Which, hey, by the way, there's a (nongraphic, thnkfully) rape scene in the third book. I seem to have deliberately forgotten it until now. -_-

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kat_nic December 6 2010, 22:37:34 UTC
I know which book you're talking about, and oh my god how did I make it through that book?! I understand that tragedy is widely considered to be the most compelling form of drama, but come the fuck on. Plus, you read enough of her books, they all start to look alike. For example, Vanyel reminds me A LOT of Ilia from The Firebird, and whats-his-name from Foundation reminded me a lot of Vetch from Joust.

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plus20 December 6 2010, 22:43:58 UTC
She loves her poor orphan boys with awful lives who grow up to be noble Heralds. Foundation had lots of issues, but I liked the detail that his Companion was shielding him from most of the trauma. At least she didn't make him perfectly okay once he's in Haven.

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vox_mortem December 6 2010, 23:25:38 UTC
I haven't read any other Lackey books before, but Magic's Pawn was just... ugh. I reviewed it

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kat_nic December 7 2010, 00:18:11 UTC
Your review is so spot on. Honestly if I read it as an adult I'd think it was crap, too, but alas I was an angsting sexually confused teen myself when I read it, so. I still love it and reread it even though many parts of it make me go wtf ML???

The best Valdemar books, by far, are By the Sword, which is a standalone, and Exhile's Honor and Exhile's Valor. If you ever felt like giving her another chance (or torturing yourself more--there's no rape and/or sudden [major] character death, at least).

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miritsu December 7 2010, 00:27:56 UTC
*nod*

I loved Lackey as a teen, but when I began to grow up and grow more discerning, I began to see the plot holes and melodrama, and all the cliches in her work. (This goes for her and Jennifer Robertson, my two teen faves.)

That said, I still remember Vanyel very fondly. :) I can't enjoy Lackey's work anymore, she's really not that talented and re-writes a lot of the same cliches over and over again ("this character will suffer and grow up to be a hero!" is her big one). But man, her stuff was fun as hell for an emo teen like me in its melodrama and with the "THIS IS EPIC"-stick she beat readers over the head with.

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celestineangel December 7 2010, 00:35:30 UTC
Eh? I'm pretty sure Vanyel never has the Bardic Gift. He gets pretty depressed about that in Pawn, actually, when the bard teaching the class gives him the subtle headshake that indicates "Nope, sorry kid, no Gift."

Anyways, I love Lackey and almost everything she does, but I'm also aware enough to realize there's definitely problems. Magical horses, whee! Convenient way to make sure none of her characters are ever too morally grey (except Tylendel, obvs). I mean, I know. I see it.

I still love them, though, and you can't stop me! Magical horses, whee!

;)

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kat_nic December 7 2010, 00:39:40 UTC
I am going to have to paraphrase here, because I don't have my book at hand, but Savil says something along the lines of, and he had the Bardic Gift, as if the gods were ripping away everything that was important to him and offering a pittance in return. I may have read these books obsessively as a teen.

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harumi December 7 2010, 00:46:10 UTC
But then she took that away in a later book, because in the second book he was telling his nephew and that old weaponsmaster how he didn't have the gift after all.

Yeah, ML doesn't read her own work, I was so confused. Does he, or does he not? GAH.

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celestineangel December 7 2010, 00:59:33 UTC
Ah, you mean after all the channel burning and crap happens. That would be a continuity/editing problem, then... I'll have to reread too, to see if I can catch that (assuming I can find my copies now).

On a slightly random note, I remember once reading a fan's reduction of the Last Herald Mage books to their barest parts, and the entirety of the Magic's Promise summary red simply as follows:

Vanyel: Ow.

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