Something that's open to debate...

[blythechild]

I just received the following commentary in an email from JRL's sister. I thought that I had heard the last of her, and naturally she directed the message contained herein towards her own suffering, but that's neither here nor there. I felt it an interesting enough opinion to re-post here:

Comments

kudos

[minouette]

I find Stein's conclusion reactionary but I really like what you have to say.

You know I was raised in a household where my father was Atheist (with capital A) and yet obsessed with Christmas and my mother quietly believed in a polite, inclusive Canadian United Church kind of way which she didn't discuss but you could sense (and God is part of AA so part of her life). We (my brothers and I) were told that religion was a personal matter for us to determine for ourselves - with which I wholly agree. I also agree firmly with what you say regarding ethics and morals - because I KNOW we were instilled with a strong sense of ethics in a godless house. Then I went to the same school as you. And while I call myself agnostic, I lean towards atheism but I too like the concept of Christmas - of peace, love and giving, so am happy to celebrate.

Also, there are scientists with faith in various religions, but I must say, they are the minority.

Re: kudos

[blythechild]

I believe faith to be an elemental aspect of the human condition, so I am never entirely comfortable with the complete denial of a higher power. Whether one truly exists or not is irrelevant; it is the need to believe in something larger than ourselves that I respect. In my opinion, if you excise that from your life it's like slicing away a bit of your humanity, maybe even a bit of your soul. I have always found Newton's idea of God comforting - a higher power that created the engine of life, threw the switch and then walked away. The rest is up to us.

Re: kudos

[minouette]

Well, that's very interesting. However, I feel neither this need nor that I have excised anything myself.

This is tangential to your point, but as a physicist and a fan of the history of science, I have to say Newton himself most certainly did NOT have the "Newtonian clockwork" idea of God. He was deeply devote and today would have been considered a fundamentalist wackjob. He had some seriously spooky-ooky ideas and believed in alchemy as well. Just sayin'.

Newton's wackery aside...

[blythechild]

hey, I'm just parroting back what I learned in my university physics course...

[zenrin]

I remember reading Mr Stein's commentary last year. I like Ben, and I agree with him. I'm not one to discuss my religeous beliefs very often unless specifically asked. Like politics, religion causes inflmamtory reactions in people and I'm a peace keeper by nature. :)
I too was raised Catholic. (my folks were not "good" Catholics though) I'm not sure I truly believed in God as a youngster or even a young adult. I did have some life-changing experiences in my late 20's and early 30's that led me to believe that there indeed is a God. I've taken theology classes and did in depth studies of the Old and New Testament. I am not a church goer though. When I do go,which is rarely, it's always a non-denominational one. I think most people don't understand the true concept of Grace. It's a gift, no strings attached. You accept it, or not. I have faith because of Grace.
There. I said it :)

[blythechild]

See? This is why I posted this: people are waaaay more interesting and varied than they let on. It IS true that we are all scared shitless of revealing our beliefs in case others don't share them, but have few qualms about discussing, say, sex or other private matters.

To me, quiet belief is quite beautiful. It's the 'in-yer-face-bent-on-saving-you-even-against-yer-will' faith that drives me 'round the bend.

[zenrin]

*blushes* Aww Shucks!

The in-yer-face Fire and Brimstone arses piss me off! Most of 'em are hypocrites and unhappy in their own skin.
It's kinda sad really, they would probably win more people over to their cause if they wern't so damn obnoxious. I don't think God wants people to be browbeat in to believing.

"There Are More Things on Heaven and Earth, Horatio...."

[reynardin]

I think our desire for God is a desire to be parented.

I'm an empiricist - and I have personally experienced so many exceptional events that I believe in the energies that shape our lives and our world. Working consciously with the energy in/of the world has produced tangible results for me, often greater results that I could have predicted.

I think this bizarre personification of God, this donating of personality, shows such a yearning for having someone in control of events, that I am sympathetic, and compassionate

Re: "There Are More Things on Heaven and Earth, Horatio...."

[reynardin]

may I also add that if they DID teach critical thinking and helped kids develop the tools to make good decisions and understand natural consequences and the human condition, if they taught them to fucking READ, I think THAT might have positive effect on our society, and is certainly far more likely to than spanking, which I do not actually see the point of at this time in my life.

Re: "There Are More Things on Heaven and Earth, Horatio...."

[blythechild]

good point.