The People of the Rust Belt Have Fears, Too

[blue_by_you]

Some people use Facebook for sharing cute animal videos and funny memes. Others share more of their day to day happenings. Some, maybe fewer, share their political or religious views. Others don’t like seeing political or religious posts from their friends. There is an old adage that one should not discuss politics and religion in polite company.

Comments

there is time of silence

[crookedfingers]

yes there is now a time of silence-the dice has been cast and we must accept the outcome good or bad-hope all is well-peace

Re: there is time of silence

[blue_by_you]

I hope you've been well, too. I don't agree that the dice has been cast and we must accept the outcome good or bad. Democracy requires that we do not do that, in fact. But how we do it, is the question.

[ghostsandrobots]

I'm glad you posted this, because I'm not one for posting thoughts or feels of any kind on FB, either. It just feels too "surveilled" on multiple levels. If I thought doing so anyway would serve a purpose, I would.

I keep more to my LJ specifically because it has seemed like a ghost-town these days. But I am still a little paranoid even here, and maybe shouldn't be. Maybe we can sit down at a table sometime.

[blue_by_you]

I hear you on all of that. And we'd love to have you at our table, Z.

[serendipity]

Thanks for posting, it's good to hear your voice again.

I understand and agree with much of what you're saying here. We'd certainly benefit from listening more to well reasoned views that are different from our own. We would all have benefitted had we listened more and talked less during all the presidential campaigning. It seems to me it's far too late now.

I'd agree more if Trump was simply an extremely conservative politician like Pence. However he's not - there is plenty of proof that he is a divisive, cheating, lying, narcissistic egomaniac who does not uphold the values of the U.S. Constitution. (This is not just name-calling, reliable sources can be provided but can also be accused of being "fake news.") He certainly does not listen more and talk less. He is supposed to represent We the People, not He the Leader. However, he's not even representing many of his supporters - does it really matter if we listen to them now

[flying_blind]

Teddy Roosevelt agrees.

[blue_by_you]

I agree that action must be taken and I agree with everything you said about Trump. My point is simply that we need a resounding victory and not the divisive partisan split that has become our norm. We need to listen and we need to be persuasive, and to do that, we need to understand what's going on in middle America and we need to appreciate the power of their fears

[serendipity]

The minute I posted my comment I wanted to amend it but had no time. I realized that you were emphasizing the discourse among voters, not the noise we must make now to the current administration, all our congressional representatives, the press, etc. expressing our outrage about the current administration. Many have been too quick to villify all Trump supporters based on their lowest common denominator, which only added - and continues to add - fuel to the fire.

That said, I have witnessed non-Trump supporters trying to present strong, persuasive arguments and/or asking reasonable questions of Trump supporters. At least in those few cases, the response was frustrating. Arguments based on factual information were paid little heed - authoritative sources (this reference librarian knows something about that) were dismissed as left-wing propaganda or countered with "alternate facts," or logical fallacies were provided. I've learned over the years that I'm a very logical thinker and that illogical thinking makes me crazy - there's no

[flying_blind]

The outcome of Trump's policies will bring his supporters far more grief than criticism by his opponents ever will. Then there will be a time for schadenfreude.

That said, I agree that emotion-driven attacks (or for that matter, in many cases even reasoned arguments) are more likely to cause the Trumpists to grow more obstinate than to reconsider their views.

And that said, popular ignorance of how the world really works is so vast (YUGE?) (and this also applies to far too many of Bernie and Hillary's supporters) that I doubt that calm reason would have had much of an impact on most of them anyway. Current American politics is more visceral than reasonable (the viscera being where food that the stomach has processed into vomit is further processed to become feces

[blue_by_you]

Yes, I agree there's going to be a teachable moment, but I don't want to sit back and let it get that bad. I have an obligation to fight for those who are persecuted by this new administration, and I have an obligation to stand up for and protect the Constitution. I hope more people feel that way than don't. And I hope enough people know what that means.

[flying_blind]

I just came across this interesting piece by Christopher Robichaud which speaks to this issue: Facts Aren't Enough. It's worth a look.

[blue_by_you]

Thanks for this.

[elainegrey]

I agree we need to listen, and that it's hard. I checked out the facebook feed of the Speaker of the NC House yesterday. I closed it quickly. There was nothing to listen to there, just posts whipping up indignation.

I hope you are able to find a way forward with your connections of facebook, but i've not seen much community develop there, like develops in this type space.

[blue_by_you]

That's also a good point about the lack of real community on FB. I don't want to be silenced by anyone there - colleagues, family, friends - and I won't let that happen. But I do think we need to be cognizant of whether or not we are being effective in our efforts.

[blue_by_you]

I did the same with my own Congressman's page today. I notice he is backing away from Trump a big on the immigration ban after he got hell for what he said a few days ago. Unfortunately, I stayed and read the comments. Mostly moronic.

Oh no, there's definitely not the connection on FB as there is here. Too bad for Facebook but a lot of the people there aren't likely very self-reflective anyway.