Seeing Is Understanding

[blairmacg]

This is about speaking up, creepers, and what good men don’t always see.  Names have been changed.

Some time ago, I was having lunch with a group of friends-four men, one woman, and me.  I’ve known most of the group for five or six years.  We were talking about shared past experiences when one of the men mentioned that he missed Larry.  “Gotta like

Comments

"That Guy" and personal space

[livejournal]

User sartorias referenced to your post from "That Guy" and personal space saying: [...] I found this post [...]

[sartorias]

Thanks for posting this.

[blairmacg]

Thank you for supporting me in doing so. :)

[mrissa]

Here from sartorias:

I have gotten to the point where I have an arsenal for that. I start with a quite-audible, "Please stop touching me," followed by, "I asked you to stop touching me," followed by escalating in volume, "stop touching me Stop Touching Me STOP TOUCHING ME" until the person stops.

I have had to use this on women as well as on men (although more on men). It tells me a lot about the room I'm in, whether bystanders actively join the unwanted-toucher in their justifications. If there are no looks of concern while I escalate in volume, that's a room I need to leave by any means necessary. (I have vertigo, so my mobility varies significantly, which is why the "wrench away, standing up, confronting body language" is not always physically possible for me.)

But this is not always possible for people who have been socialized to be polite and "nice." It took me until I was almost 30 to develop this mode, and I had various factors encouraging it, not like some people who are less fortunate in their families, jobs, and circumstances

[3rdragon]

Also here from sartorias.

I had a friend in college who would talk about the "Three levels of no," which align pretty closely to what you're talking about. So often women are taught to only use the first two, or the first one, or to state their preferences so obliquely that it's not even really "no" at all.

[blairmacg]

Absolutely true, on understanding the tenor of the room. The first line of self-defense is getting out of a bad situation, no matter the context.

I think what most disturbed the man I touched was that he suddenly realized he had no idea how to respond when I didn't "permit" him to politely withdraw.

My primary self-defense instructor--a petite woman--taught me I have the right to tell if asking doesn't work. "You will stop touching me and walk away."

[mrissa]

Yes. "That is not yours. You will stop that NOW."

[joycemocha]

Thanks for posting this.

Moi? Unless I know them and they fit in my personal list of People I'm Okay With Touching me, I'll do my damnedest to whip around with a fist and pull it back just before connecting if someone tries this on me. I may make it playful, if the situation calls for it, but I'm not kidding. It's not always a conscious reaction.

[blairmacg]

That reminds me of a friend who, while at a party, was on the receiving end of a man's persistent "I'll just rest my hand on your shoulder" attention. She very calmly and deliberately reached up, cupped her hand over his, then twisted it into a rather uncomfortable joint lock.

When he protested, she said, "Oh, I thought you *wanted* to give me this hand."

He stopped touching.

[thnidu]

Bravo!

(Here < nancylebov < sartorias.)

[queenoftheskies]

I have a lot of difficulty getting out of those situations. I think it's vulnerability left over from abuse. I freeze, which doesn't really allow me the brains to respond.

It's very heartening to read your post and see that, once they're made aware of the type of thing that's happening, the men are just as creeped out over it as the women. Gives one hope that everyone (male and female both) can learn to recognize those situations in the future and respond to aid a "trapped" person before anything worse can happen.

[roadnotes]

I often freeze, too, which surprises people. I spend a lot of my social time these days in a community where touch is explicitly negotiated ("Are you huggable?" is my default greeting, even to people who have given me unlimited hugging privileges), and I am often at a loss when someone else violates those boundaries.

[blairmacg]

My thought--which could be completely off-base, so feel free to say so!--would be that since you're often in the company of very aware people who verbalize boundaries, it's shocking to be around people who simply make assumptions?

Rehearsing responses within the aware community can help one find the cease-and-desist methods that are both effective AND that fit what you're more comfortable with.

That comfort level is critical, imho. Just as writers are more comfortable with some styles than others, and martial artists more capable with some techniques than others, we individuals will find which responses match both the situation and our natural inclinations. One person's go-to answer will not be the best for everyone in every situation.

"Are you huggable?"

[apostle_of_eris]

nice
thanks
That's way better than what I've come up with on my own.