Torchwood POV-character ponderings

[black_eyedgirl]

So I was thinking, as you do, about some of the criticisms levelled at Torchwood. Specifically the one more personal to those of us who are fans of the show, but still feel the need to point out that Countrycide/Random Shoes/Small Worlds/pick your episode, aren't what we call intelligent science-fiction

Comments

[sepia_words]

I agree that it would have created some difficulties with exposition, but I think most intelligent writers should be able to get around that. I've started watching quite a few shows in the middle of a series or a couple of series in, and I've always managed to pick up what's going on within a couple of episodes

[black_eyedgirl]

I've started watching quite a few shows in the middle of a series or a couple of series in, and I've always managed to pick up what's going on within a couple of episodes.
I would agree with that, and add that if a show's good enough, you'll tolerate being clueless for a little while. If it's interesting, and the characters are well-drawn, you're okay being not quite sure of what else is happening. And in Torchwood there actually isn't that much plot carrying over, so I'm not sure how much of a problem it would be. Once you know roughly what Torchwood do, most of the episodes are fairly stand-alone

[pontisbright]

I've long wondered about the West Wing episode 1 as the ultimate in pilot episodes, and how it dispenses so brilliantly with that tired 'I am new, introduce me' formula - and whether other series would really benefit from flinging you straight into the mix. Hadn't thought about the specific SF angle on that, but since I was already pretty sold, that's just grist to the mill

[black_eyedgirl]

could have been passed over in favour of a 'here is Team Torchwood' style episode without losing all that much
Exactly - if we saw them 'on the job' as it were, how much effort would it take to at least set up who our main characters are? Owen-as-doctor, Ianto-as-glorified teaboy (*hugs Ianto*), Tosh-as-tech!girl, Suzie-as-2IC, Jack-as-boss. Which is, pretty much, what ep1 of West Wing does. Or a lot of the early but not pilot eps of Firefly for that matter - mention enough that the audience knows who everyone is, without losing your plot, and without exposition dump.

Given how flaky and 'human' the rest of them are, we hardly need Gwen as the 'human' element:*g* Too true. I suppose the contrast is meant to be Gwen at the beginning thinking they've all been down there too long, with Gwen at the end and the retcon etc. But I don't think Tosh, Ianto, or even Owen are as 'alien' as Gwen seems to think. They seem to me just humanly screwed up, with the added problem of being able use alien tech to try, badly, to make their lives better.

[johnnypurple]

This is an interesting thought. But you've also got to think about what the writers/producers are trying to achieve. Firstly, I think with Torchwood they were trying to get new viewers as well as pre-existing Dr. Who fans - so hence, the POV-character entry into the show is a way not to alienate (heh, a pun!) all those new viewers. It's a safe way in. Not everyone automatically identifies with an omnisexual time traveller from the future (no, really. apparently some people don't. don't ask me who they are though).

Also, as risky as any show is, the writers/producers still want to get it renewed for another season - so, unless they be David Lynch, they are never going to push it too far

[black_eyedgirl]

Oh, I know why they did it. Strange people who don't easily identify with "omnisexual time travellers from the future" are all too familiar to me. I was more wondering, from a sci-fi fan's POV, whether we needed it. Though I hadn't thought about the scepticism angle, and you're probably right about that. Technobable without someone to go WTF is a sad state indeed...

I was going to babble on about the differences between Gwen and Rose in a character arc kind of way, but that really has nothing to do with this post. Suffice to say that I too am glad that Gwen has a little more bite/conflict to her transformation, and also that the show played around with all of its ensemble cast. I wouldn't have minded a little more of an arc, especially with the bad-guys, but, yeah, life is indeed messier than that :-)

[zabbers]

I think it would've been cool. But at the same time, I don't know how much I would have cared. And the reason it would be cool would be because I care. Gwen may not be my favorite, but I care about everybody at Torchwood. And I'm not sure that after one introductory Gwen's-POV pilot episode, I would have cared enough about her for her death to have more of an impact than Eugene's death in Random Shoes (granted, he died before the episode started, rather than at the end). Maybe if she had died a little later in the season, say around the end of the third episode? When we're still basically following the story from her point of view, but we know her just a little better. The other problem, though, is that so many of the characters are essentially black holes of information. They see everything and give away nothing. And I like them that way. Without Gwen to balance it out, we would know so little about any of them until some big bombshell drops, and even afterwards, we find we still don't really know anything about them (

[black_eyedgirl]

I'm not sure that after one introductory Gwen's-POV pilot episode, I would have cared enough about her for her death
This is probably right, though I do think it would have been more shocking than Eugene's death, in that he was set up as a one-episode character, and Gwen was set up as a POV. But yeah, a few episode in would have been worse/better. Upsetting, anyway, and possibly more trust-destroying than doing it in ep1.

The information part, at least information other than just how Torchwood works, we probably would have had problems with. Especially with Jack, who is not a man for revealing his secrets. But then we found out about Ianto's independently of Gwen, and Tosh is the one told about Jack in the end, when he thinks they're stuck. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been harder to do, but I do think the show could have managed it. And the "Jack keeping secrets and thus provoking his team to betray him and nearly end the world" arc would have been interesting to play with when we really knew nothing about anyone else.

[zabbers]

But then we found out about Ianto's independently of Gwen, and Tosh is the one told about Jack in the end

Oh, I do think we could have gotten what information we do have about them without Gwen. More like...if we put everything we know about all the characters into a pool and average it out, without Gwen, the average would come out a bit smaller.

Though Jack keeping secrets and not knowing anything about anyone else--definitely interesting, IF they were able to pull it off.

[black_eyedgirl]

*g* Sorry, I understand what you meant now - I may not be quite awake! Yes, you're definitely right there. It wouldn't have bothered me so much - see my desire for the grand-secrets theme which someone posited recently - but it would probably have put some people off. And made people stop watching, therefore endangering S2, so we're probably okay as we are!

[londonkds]

How do SFX mean "most controversial show"? Are they talking about arguments about whether it's any good, or "oh, isn't it edgy with all the sex and violence"?

[black_eyedgirl]

Okay, the exact quote (p13, along with solicitations for requests for S2) is "Possibly the most controversial and divisive show SFX has ever covered". So I'm thinking they mean the first one. Though it should be born in mind that when this went to print the last two episodes wouldn't have aired, and the letters page is all people complaing about the first "five or so" episodes. I think people (I hope!) were less divided about the last episodes. But I don't actually know what people think of it outside of LJ, my house, and the high viewer numbers, so I may be wrong.