why so serious?

Jul 28, 2008 21:07



I grew up with Batman-watching the 60’s television show, reading the comics.  Characters like Batman, Batgirl, Robin, Alfred, Commissioner Gordon, the Joker, Catwoman, Two-Face, Penguin, the Riddler, and Poison Ivy have been a part of my consciousness for over 30 years.  It’s kind of amazing to me that I can still be so captivated by such a ( Read more... )

feminism, film, comics/manga

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sakru909 July 29 2008, 02:53:28 UTC
Glad you liked the movie. I had watched it a week ago and loved it, my parents liked it too. Even though my dad was probably more exited about Two-Face than The Joker since he didn't like the last Two-Face.

I do agree about Rachel's character, I have a grudge against female characters who're only used as a plot device for the hero. I thought she at least had the insight and wisdom that most characters in that position don't.

The Watchmen movie looks promising, even though I've never read the original graphic novel.

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bitterfig July 30 2008, 16:38:34 UTC
The last Two-Face was Tommy Lee Jones in Batman and Robin right? I know I saw it but I think I blocked out everything about the last franchise after Tim Burton left. Things got very weird indeed in Gotham.

I do feel like a lot of the time that in action type movies/series etc a token female character/girlfriend/love interest is just sort of tacked on as eye candy or a reminder that the hero (despite spending all his time with guy buddies and usually obsessing over a guy in the form of the villain) is safely heterosexual.

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sakru909 July 30 2008, 16:47:14 UTC
I think so, but I don't really remember; probably for the exact same reason you don't.

I despise token characters in many forms, if they're well written I might give them a pass. I wish there were more female characters in action movies frankly, god knows the world needs more kick ass female leads; it would solve so many problems.

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3goodtimes July 29 2008, 04:11:03 UTC
Much agreed. With everything.

I also felt bittersweet about Rachel. From the very begining I knew she was a plot-device of sorts, so it was a pleasant surprise to see her fleshed out a little in this movie. Of course, I also realized immediately that her number was up because someone had to make Batman face the perils of his job, the danger of the Joker. The love-interest is always the first to go. But ditto on the love for Maggie.

As you said, Batman has never been a great vehicle for strong female characters. Although I love the vixens and femme-villains of the universe, they are so often sex objects, moral metaphors, or minions to men. I noticed in this movie that not one woman was a gangster, mob boss, or even small-time criminal save the police officer who did it for her mother. I suppose it's meant to reflect real crime? I must confess, I'm not sure what the female criminal ratio is. *shrug* Just a thought.

I was excited about The Watchmen too. Although I wish the director'd quit it with the slow-mo. It's a fall-back ( ... )

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bitterfig July 30 2008, 16:26:12 UTC
When I first saw the female police officer (Detective Ramirez) on-screen I really hoped that she was going to turn out to be Renee Montoya. Alas, no.

Batman does have some great female villains. I love Catwoman, Poison Ivy and of course dear psycho Harley Quinn. Ironically enough villainousness fseem to be the women that Batman is most comfortable with. In the comics during the early 80's he was more or less in a relationship with Catwoman and he's been lovers with Talia al Ghul (Ras al Ghul's daughter/#1 henchwoman) and even had a child with her in the graphic novel Son of the Demon<.i>. Must be a duality thing.

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Its hard out there for a plot device sakru909 July 30 2008, 00:43:41 UTC
I kind of have a grudge against female characters being used like this since it's what I see most of the time, but if Rachel's character was a man instead of a woman I think the same thing would have happened. Her character was still important to the plot and served a purpose; she at least gets more than most characters in that position.

I've noticed female characters do get judged allot more harshly than male characters and it'll be more likely a female character will be called a Mary Sue than a guy character.

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Re: Its hard out there for a plot device bitterfig July 30 2008, 16:09:03 UTC
It's funny, I saw this test once called "Is Your Character A Mary Sue?" and after looked it over I realized that the biggest Mary Sue of all time has to be... Harry Potter.

Dead Parents? Check.
Chosen one or prophecy? Check.
Special Abilities (often involving animals?) Check- talks to snakes
Good at Everything? Check (youngest seeker ever!)
Loyal sidekicks? Check.
Many competing for their love? Check.

And on and on. I've always sort of felt that a character really has to be a little "special" if they're going to be the subject of a story, at least in the fantasy genre.

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Re: Its hard out there for a plot device sakru909 July 30 2008, 16:14:08 UTC
I think the Mary Sue card gets thrown out too much actually. There's a whole comm dedicated to finding canon Mary Sues and when I look it over many of the examples they give don't really qualify.

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