If you don' t like it, don't read it.

[bethbethbeth]

Over the past few days in the LJ-verse, there seem to have been a higher-than-average number of fraught discussions on a variety of subjects. The topics have ranged from disputes over the worth of an individual story to the morality of a particular genre of fanfic to debates over completely non-fannish political issues, and somewhere in each of

Comments

[musesfool]

is in what circumstances would "If you don't like it, don't read it" actually be a useful piece of advice?

Maybe it should be emended to say, "If you don't like it, *stop* reading it and get on with your day" (in the case of schmoopy pet names, OOCness, poultry, and other unwarned for ficly things that may turn what appeared to be a promising story into an "oh my god, I hate this!" experience).

[bethbethbeth]

Heh. Now *that's* not a bad idea.

Especially for poultry!

[musesfool]

Nobody expects poultry!

[gmth]

Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. No one's expecting other fans to be clairvoyant and know before even clicking on a fic if they're going to like it or not. But I think everyone is expecting other fans to be smart enough to know how to use that handy little back button if they run across something the decide they don't like, and then reasonable enough to understand that whatever problems they have with the material are their own, not the writer's.

[destina]

"If you don't like it, don't read it"

I loathe that phrase. Mostly because it's generally used in an attempt to stop a discussion from taking place; it's a dismissal of feelings, of discussion and critique, of reactions to what someone has read. It drives me nuts.

Great post.

[millefiori]

I agree. I don't see this in authors' notes/headers as often as I do in the middle of a discussion about the fic itself from people who don't like the negative things that are being said about it. I personally am not a fan of publicly mocking bad fanfic, but the fact is that some people are. Some people deliberately troll for badfic so they and their friends can savage it like a pack of wild dogs. And, distasteful as I may find that, it's their perogative to enjoy fandom the way they want to. I pity the authors of said fanfic because I know how painful it would be to see one of my own stories treated that way, but that's a risk you take when you publicly post.

[shayheyred]

I disagree. I think it is a function of what could be a rule #4 - Some people do not think others should have the right to enjoy things they themselves do not enjoy. If I say "I hate incest stories," I think it's perfectly legitimate for Fan A, who does like it to say, "Okay, it's not your bag. Don't read it. But I will continue to."

Fine. I won't read incest...but I'd be hard pressed to deny Fan A the right to read it. That's the gist of the kerfuffle over RPS that occurred this week. There are too many Fan A's saying - "I hate it, and so should you."

[millefiori]

Ahh, yes, that is different. I was thinking more of the fans who try to derail discussions with the equivalent of, "Stop saying bad things about this story; if you don't like it, don't read it."

[atdelphi]

Very good points, all of them - liking a story is such a subjective thing. For instance, I can say in general that I like BDSM, or chan, or non-con, but what I really mean is that I like these things when they're done precisely in such a way that they entertain me rather than disgust me. Especially with sensitive topics like these, it's a fine line as to whether a story 'works' for one individual or not. You just don't know until you've started reading.

(That said, I consider it an exception when all my stories are clearly marked for pairing, and I get flames complaining about no other facet but the pairing

[bethbethbeth]

"If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Hmm. Or maybe "If you don't have something to say that won't make you sound like like an insane bitch whose reason for existence is to make other people feel terrible, keep the comments to AIM where they belong." Not as pithy a saying, I know, but...

And yes, the pairing flames are odd, although I've certainly received comments that have said "I've always hated XX/YY pairing, but this story was..." and those I quite like. *g*

[atdelphi]

*grin* Or to narrow it - if you can't or won't find one nice thing to say about the story, then can it. Good con-crit should point out a story's strengths as well as its weaknesses (i.e. 'I like your use of x imagery, but I thought the characterisation of y wasn't entirely plausible in that circumstance...') If a story's a total wash, well, maybe it's just best to let the author figure that out on their own :-P

And yes, the pairing flames are odd, although I've certainly received comments that have said "I've always hated XX/YY pairing, but this story was..." and those I quite like. *g*

Oh yes, I love those! No greater ego-boost. Though the ones that say, 'I don't like Dumbledore-sex so I went through and replaced his name with Remus and then it was great', I could do without.

[bethbethbeth]

hough the ones that say, 'I don't like Dumbledore-sex so I went through and replaced his name with Remus and then it was great', I could do without

LOL! You've really received feedback that said that? Oh, god.

second try w/o horrifying typo

[raveninthewind]

in what circumstances would "If you don't like it, don't read it" actually be a useful piece of advice?

If you really don't want to get sucked into the unpleasantness of reading something you know you are going to hate

Re: second try w/o horrifying typo

[bethbethbeth]

Except...how is the sentence itself going to keep you from reading it? The warnings would have done that already, wouldn't they? And if the story doesn't have warnings, then in what way does "If you don't like it" make any sense?

I mean, yes, there are certainly subjects I stay away from on days when I don't feel like upsetting myself, but in those cases, the sentence isn't going to add anything to my decision, if you know what I mean.

Re: reconsideration

[raveninthewind]

Ah! The light dawns. I guess in my head I was thinking about the meaning behind saying that to someone/posting it. Not as a Warning! meant to prevent people from reading it.

In that light it does seem particularly useless. If other, more specific, warnings haven't done the job of scaring one away, then that line alone won't.

[bethbethbeth]

::nods::

It's not even the warnings that are the issue here (because as you say, you can't warn for everything, and the things that bother *me* the most aren't even my least favorite kinks and genres, but rather terrible characterization and writing - neither of which are warned for on any archive): it's the ubiquitousness of that sentence that drives me crazy.

And believe me, I feel for you, at times, when I think of you in your capacity of site admin on ashwinder. Of course, if I were the Goddess of Ashwinder, I'd let the same stories go through as are going through now (regardless of whether I liked them or not), but I'd ban author notes, apart from thanks to the betas and citations of where the in-text quotes came from. Luckily for many authors, I'm *not* the Goddess of Ashwinder. *g*

BTW...is "Therapy" up on Lumos? I want to rec it in my next recs page update, but I can't remember where I read it.

[bethbethbeth]

*all my fics will go anywhere that will have them, they are slutty fics.

I certainly hope you've *warned* for that. :)