Return to the Planet of the Complete Bloody Psychopaths

[bellatrys]

aka "Outlaw of Gor", ©1967 by John NormanIt's too bad I couldn't really have bet on my surmise re the City Of Scary Dominant Women, because I would have cleaned up there

Comments

[fledgist]

Ye gods and small fishes.........

it gets even *less* probable

[bellatrys]

and that's a hard one to top.

[archangelbeth]

I'm trying to figure out exactly how the author can conflate the concepts that "Women are Just as Cruel and Vindictive as Men, And Will Do Unto Men As They Have Been Done Unto, If Allowed" and "Women Want To Be Enslaved." It seems that there is some kind of mutual incompatibility here. If the latter is true, then surely no woman-ruled civilization would last more than about 24 hours, or maybe a week if all the guys around were weedy masochists. If the former is true, then how can the "oh, they like it really" be justified?

Somewhere down the line -- around Captive of Gor -- there start being little illegal, violent bands of Gorean men in drag women running around, who have customs like, "I like this number of women in my band, so if you want to join, Weepy Protagonist, you have to kill one of my number, who are trained knife-fighters." As I recall, the leader of that group got captured (and was all proud and stuff), then escaped/rescued, and wound up actually wandering off into the woods again, rather than submitting herself to

I'd bet he just says that every society has its perverts

[bellatrys]

and wound up actually wandering off into the woods again, rather than submitting herself to Natural Slavery. Unlike Weepy Protagonist, but we won't go into that.

There are cowardly, grovelling Gorean men, after all, too.

Re: I'd bet he just says that every society has its perverts

[archangelbeth]

*SNRKL*

Mmm, macha panther girls and cowardly, groveling men. MMMMMMMMMM.

...yeah, I guess I'm a pervert, then. And in the modalities of perversion, am I more perverted on Gor, where such things are understood as true perversion, as opposed to the lax ways of Earth?

Sorry, sorry. I mock the books to stay sane.

[acaciaonnastik]

Ugh, I heard about those books when one of the batshit insane people who live their lives by the precepts therein was featured on stupid_free for trolling BDSM communities.

All of which delivered unto him loads and loads of righteous mockery. It was so fun to read.

Salon article on the Gorean lifestylers from a while back

[bellatrys]

"Chain Gang" and the followup letters, including one by a brave defender of the manly Gor lifestyle...who dare not sign his name!

That's a great icon, btw!

Re: Salon article on the Gorean lifestylers from a while back

[acaciaonnastik]

I'm not quite sure whether to laugh or run screaming. flagpoleman was funnier, though. (Bonus self-mockery: Apparently he thought grammar and spelling were feminist plots.)

Thanks. I don't remember where I snagged it, but it has served me well.

Re: Salon article on the Gorean lifestylers from a while back

[voxwoman]

Crap. I started reading the Salon article, and I think I know "Bear", through one of his "slaves". She ended our friendship at his request, because "I didn't understand." Sigh. That was certainly a buzzkill.

[evilstorm]

In the midst of all the Norman-bashing, which mind you I heartily agree with, I'd just like to point out that his ideas re master/slave relationships are not complete bullshit. The reason they're crap is cos of the gender roles that he's created within them, which yeah is why we're all ears-back about this in the first place. Well, that and the fact that even in the master/slave context he's slightly insane. But the infantilism etc that he's projected onto the women in his books--some slaves do choose that in real life. Why they would do that befuddles me quite a bit, but they have their reasons and...I wouldn't automatically condemn them for it, personally.

[/tl;dr] We return you to your regularly scheduled programming now.

Yes, but the crucial word here is "choice"

[deiseach]

Where the person makes a decision to submit and turn over control to another, and there is a structure in place as to what should happen how. And succour is available; society does not say "Hey, you agreed to be X's property, so tough! No changing your mind if you find you don't like it

Re: Yes, but the crucial word here is "choice"

[voxwoman]

That's all he can manage typing with one hand.

[voxwoman]

You mean, you don't understand why someone, someone say, who is financially responsible for 4 or 5 people, responsible for their feeding, bathing, clothing, shopping, erranding, taxiing, just plain responsible 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year (366 on leap years) wouldn't desire to just have to be beautiful and not say no to sex? And let someone ELSE make all the decisions and shoulder all the responsibility?

(that kind of responsibility, accompanied by the added responsibilities of the executive, is what keeps professional dominatrixes employed, just for an example)

And we all know people of all genders who Just Don't Want To Grow Up.

Me, I'll settle for 4 hours at the day spa, and a couple of "chick flick" rentals. Where's my masseuse?

[watervole]

What always got me was John Norman's laws of genetics. All genes are sex-linked. How do we know this?

Strong dominant men pass on their genes to all the sons that they get from capturing all these women.

Women who are weak and submissive have lots of female children by all these dominant men.