Yeah, if you only enjoy your marriage when your spouse makes you happy, what do you do when they make you unhappy? You can't have a deep relationship if it's based on something as loose as happiness.
I've heard people talking about a similar thing when it comes to the question "What do you want out of life/What is your life's goal"? To be happy? I would prefer to find joy.
Very nice. I think for most people the reliance on happiness is, at least in part, because they have trouble vocalizing that it is really about. Because as amazing as love and marriage is -- it's complicated!
I've always said that if you feel you need person 'x' to be complete, or if you can't imagine a future without him/her, you're in a dangerous place.
But if you don't want to imagine a future without him/her, then you're on the right track.
Perhaps people don't know how to discern between happiness and joy. "I'm happy with this person" may mean that they have joy in being with them, and that in turn, makes them happy. That just because they may have a fight or be unhappy in the moment, doesn't mean that they're unhappy on a deeper level. You take happiness to be a temporary thing, and joy to be deeper and more permanent. Beyond regular emotions. People have different definitions for happiness. When someone says that the most important thing is to be happy, I don't think they mean truly happy-in-a-good-mood-all-the-time kind of happy. I think they mean the deeper, more transcendent kind of happiness, which you describe as joy. But just because they use the word "happiness" instead of "joy" doesn't mean they're not feeling exactly what you're describing.
Of course, since I have no personal experience in this, I might be talking out of my ass.
I think you're right that a marriage should be holy and that it should make a person feel holy. However, I should note that people have different definitions of happiness. Reading your post made me realize that you and I probably think of the word differently. I think of it as a state of satisfaction and contentment with the overall way things are, or at least with the way things are going. I make the distinction between being happy and having fun or feeling good. There have been times that I'm feeling miserable and depressed, but I manage to have an isolated good time. I'll be smiling and laughing, and my emotions at that particularly moment would probably be described by some as "happy," but that's just not the word I would use. Sometimes I'll have a particularly good week, or even month, during which a lot of enjoyable things happen. I'll appear to be happy, and I'll be experiencing many positive emotions. But again, I wouldn't describe myself as happy in those circumstances
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I think your comment was perfectly clear as well. And you mentioned something that I forgot to--the distinction between the words "happiness" and "joy." I don't see joy being longer-lasting. I view the difference as being one of intensity. I'd actually say Happiness is the longer-lasting one and Joy is more of a temporary, intense burst of the low-burning emotions that make up happiness. The way I think of Joy, I don't think it would possible for it to be a permanent or very long-lasting thing. Joy is so intense that it'd probably end up being mania if it lasted too long.
My ideas of happiness and joy line up very closely with yours, Tseeps. I think of joy as something really intense and generally fleeting--moments of pure joy, is a phrase that comes to mind--and happiness as a more general, long-lasting contentment. For example, when I was in grad school, I was unhappy. That doesn't mean I never smiled or laughed or had a good time--of course I did. But I was unhappy. Now I think I'm closer to being happy, though I'm not completely there, but that doesn't mean I'm never sad or down.
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I've heard people talking about a similar thing when it comes to the question "What do you want out of life/What is your life's goal"? To be happy? I would prefer to find joy.
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I've always said that if you feel you need person 'x' to be complete, or if you can't imagine a future without him/her, you're in a dangerous place.
But if you don't want to imagine a future without him/her, then you're on the right track.
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Thanks for taking the time to jot your thoughts down!
Vron
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Of course, since I have no personal experience in this, I might be talking out of my ass.
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Ignore what I said; I feel the same as Tseeps.
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Holiness obviously doesn't enter into it for me.
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