Over 1,500 words. I've written fic shorter than that.

[beckerbell]

Well, my computer didn't crash, so I'm going to celebrate by posting a... well, it's not a rant, but it's not really an "essay", either. It's just something to get it out of my system (and because Noel expressed interest <3) before I go on to squee about the Robin/Batgirl cuteness of Batman Chronicles #9 and this week's The Batman episode. And if

Comments

[joyeuxnoel]

Well, we've totally gone over this subject many, many times before so I'll avoid the retread. But I totally did want to point out my amusement that "one man munity" is actually a Grayson quote (IIRC?) XD

[beckerbell]

You say that like I don't enjoy going over it for the thousandth time just as much as I enjoyed it the first time. *pout*

But, yeah, I actually like Grayson's work sometimes and I still think her Gotham Knights stuff was really good/interesting. I mean, look how much I squeed over Chronicles #9 and that was her work, too.

(Also, I totally need to send you #7 because it's got this fabulous scene with Dick and Donna, where they're actually having fun and he gets to beat up hoodlums and make stupid jokes and she teases him and it's just pure fabulousness.)

[joyeuxnoel]

Honestly if we wanted to do something we hadn't done before we'd get into a whole discussion about physical vs. romantic vs. familiar love and how most fandoms tend to merge it all into one category.

I do think we've been overly crtiical of Grayson. I definetly don't like everything she's done nor her impact on the genre but if push came to shove I'm quite positive we could come up with worse offenders when it came to writers. (Of course, we'd have to go over to Marvel and the X-books but they exist!)

(And I hate you because now I totally wanna re-read "Faerber's little one-shot story where all the Titans show up in Bludhaven and Roy brings beer and Donna and DIck talk. *kicks at* )

[beckerbell]

In a way, I find this discussion (both in terms of not being a fan of the pairing and of the discussion about physical vs romantic vs familial love) interesting because it's not precisely the usual shipping war arguements. Because we're not arguing that there aren't intense feelings there, my whole thing is that of course there are abnormally intense feelings there, but that the overall tone is a familial one.

And I... honestly? Sometimes I think I'll take familial dynamics over romantic ones in any fandom.

(re: Grayson)
I think it's not so much that we've been overly critical as that... we haven't focused on the good things she does, too? It's been sort of one-sided lately, more on the 'hate' of the love/hate relationship than the 'love' side. (Chuck Austen springs immediately to mind. I... can't really think of any DC writers that were just atrocious?)

(re: Dick and the Titans)
I think that was in that Titans Secret Files thing? Or was it in the regular Titans run? It sounds familiar, but....

I'm bringing this icon back into rotation.

[anxietygrrl]

I LOVE YOU LOTS AND LOTS.

Also, re: Grayson, I wonder how much blame/credit for her work can go to editorial, i.e. who kept her under control vs. who let her have a free hand? This is an idle wondering, however, as the very idea of me bothering to lookup names of DCU editors is patently ridiculous.

Re: I'm bringing this icon back into rotation.

[beckerbell]

I LOVE THAT YOU LOVE ME LOTS. IT FILLS ME WITH WARM, SQUISHY, EXTERNAL VALIDATION LOVE.

Re: Grayson, even if you knew who the editors were, there's no way to get an accurate account of how much freedom she had/didn't have. Whatever the answer, she still wrote those words and they still blew. Maybe she didn't have the fairest shake--but who does in this industry?

Re: I'm bringing this icon back into rotation.

[anxietygrrl]

Agreed. All I'm saying is, we can't overlook the bosses who don't fulfill their editorial duties and allow titles to get shitty.

Re: I'm bringing this icon back into rotation.

[anxietygrrl]

Er, not that their editorial duty is to allow titles to get shitty. Or hell, who knows, maybe it is.

[individual]

I really need to get into more fandom than I'm in right now. I suck. But yay for pairing love! ♥

[beckerbell]

You know, every time I try to do the whole, "Oh, I'm above all that pairing stuff, I'm in it for the characters." thing, I'll get hit with a Dick/Babs scene and I'll be just as squeeful as the next fangirl.

Ships own us all. There is no escape.

[aj]

*hugs you* I wish I hadn't given up most of my DC titles so that I could actually have an indepth discussion with you that evolves a bit past "..I hate Devin Grayson because although she did a good job of building up a story, she built it on shitty, personal issue-based foundations, and so while I can totally get behind the idea that she did a slow build and grand payoff... I HATED THE WHOLE THING LOTS!"

Also. YAY! I made Becky think!

[beckerbell]

Much as I don't blame you for letting go of comics (sometimes I think that's the wiser choice, what with the way things are shaping up lately), I'm also saddened at the lack of yet another sane fan to stick around and make fandom worth it.

I'm at the point where I can still see a lot of the positives to Devin Grayson's work (I still like Gotham Knights, I still think her ten page Robin/Batgirl thing in Batman Chronicles was adorable, etc.) and I still consider her honestly talented. But I hated that she let her agenda take priority over just simply writing the characters. I hated that she got far too up in her own head with being obsessed with a character and rationalizing things she wanted to write even if they were completely OUT OF CHARACTER because it's such a fanfic writer thing to do. She's supposed to be a professional and I was so excited when she was put on the title and then it just... every issue crumbled away that excitement more and more. Devin Grayson is the author that got me to finally drop the Nightwing title