Wonder Woman: Amazing because she makes everyone uncomfortable

[beccatoria]

This is some long, hopefully not entirely incoherent meta about Wonder Woman and feminism and how I fell head over heels in love with her.

Comments

[daybreak777]

Oppression is a scar on all of us. We don't think clearly around it. Any of us. Any time a whisper of it is in the air. Even with the best and kindest intentions. Even when we know we have to have these conversations and fight for them to take place, even when we are firm in our beliefs that we are on the right side of the issue, they're not comfortable.

What a great post and a great passage. :-) A lot of it over my head because I know nothing about comics but when has not knowing a fandom stopped me from commenting in your journal? *g*

I just really liked a lot of what you said and wish I had more context and could be more thinky about it.

[beccatoria]

Awww, thanks, I really appreciate your commenting even when you don't know what the hell I'm rambling about, and I'm glad you thought what I said made sense. You could totally learn about Wonder Woman though! She's aces!

At least you know about Olivia now. Imagine Olivia without the childhood abuse and with superpowers granted by Greek Gods instead of Walter! :p

[tellitslant]

:DDDDD This makes me SO HAPPY. I think you nailed some of the issues with WW solidly. She has to represent so much by virtue of merely existing, which makes for a serious burden on any of the stories told with her. I think the best ones are always those that admit that burden and work within it, but even those are so often trying to do so much and remake so many failures and make her everything... it's hard.

You might be interested, if you want to read more WW, on George Perez's run, which relaunched her after Crisis in '86. He wrote I think the first 50 issues of vol2 and set up most of the current mythology. Phil Jimenez also did some neat stuff with her, starting with vol2 #164. (If you only read one of his, read #170.)

I'm really interested in looking at the queerness of The Circle - I meta'd a little on that on tumblr here.

[tellitslant]

Also, is it in Rucka's run that Diana and Superman have a conversation about how he died and came back and thens he felt it was appropriate she do the same thing, only backwards and in high heels? Oh wait, here's the panel. :P

[beccatoria]

Yes! That's from the last issue he wrote - the epilogue about her friendship with him, which is why it was playing in my mind when I wrote this. *saves the panel*

[beccatoria]

Awwww \o/

I'm really glad you enjoyed reading this and think I give a fair assessment of the issues and the runs. And yes, there's so much pressure on her as soon as she, well, exists, that what really floors me about it in many ways, is how Rucka and Simone manage to write her in...powerful positive contradiction to that. Like, that scene in an early Simone issue where Wonder Woman basically lets someone beat the shit out of her because she knows this guy can't possibly hurt her and just keeps extending her hand. Like when you see a thing that is such a powerful, positive, redemptive contradiction to a messed up thing, to like, a screwed up way of thinking, people react so weirdly, especially if it's personal. Like the gamut from aggression to relief to sorrow to joy. And that's like...I'm babbling now and being hyperbolic and overstating stuff, but that's the kind of effect I think Wonder Woman can have, when she's written rightI'll keep Perez in mind. At the moment I'm catching up on Supergirl, then my plan is to read a

[sabaceanbabe]

All I know about Wonder Woman I learned from the cheesy tv show starring Linda Carter, but you make me want to find these (I'm assuming graphic novels?) and devour them.

[beccatoria]

Awwww, the cheesy TV show, yes, I barely saw any of that and for a long time it was still most of what I knew about her. *facepalm*

Yeah, they were originally published as single issue comics. Greg Rucka wrote Wonder Woman Vol 2 #195 - 226, and Gail Simone wrote Wonder Woman Vol 3 #14 - 44. #226 is the end of Vol 2, then in between Vol 2 and 3 there's a big DC Event called "Infinite Crisis", which is mostly of interest if you care about the whole universe rather than Wonder Woman specifically. You could read it (and you could read the first 13 issues of Vol 3) but you don't need to. Because of the DC's decision to start after Infinite Crisis a whole "year later" as a stylistic choice, it works sort of interestingly as a build up to a huge event and then the aftermath of a huge event. Sure, you can watch the punch-up if you want, but that's not where the emotion is. And really, that's the best way you can describe Infinite Crisis, "Reality had a bit of a punch-up; some stuff changed

[sabaceanbabe]

Hmm... Looks like that site you linked to is having a 1/2 off sale through the end of today. :D

[beccatoria]

Ooooh, well in THAT case! :D It's Wonder Woman Vol 3 that you want (I'm pretty sure they don't have the Rucka run, the swine!), as I said, 14 - 44 are hers. Though for a taster, the first four issues she did (14 - 17) form the first arc that also tie into her origin story. It's also the arc that does a lot of the weird/interesting/disturbing gender stuff I mention above, so you'll immediately know more of what I'm talking about. In effect, I'm throwing you into the bit that made me MOST uncomfortable. :p But yeah, it is a strongly written story and will give you an idea of what to make of the character, etc., I think.

[be_themoon]

I'm just going to sit over here and grin madly and make noises that sound sort of like "DIANAAAAAAAA" for a while. :D

[beccatoria]

DIAAAAAANNNNNNAAAAAAAA!

(I found an icon! But only one that I really loved.)

[beccatoria]

I MAY FORCE YOU TO READ SOME COMICS, YES. WE WILL TALK MORE LATER, OKAY? Cus honestly, I'm not sure how you'll react to comics as a format, but as a character, I really do think Diana of Themiscyra is exactly the kind of person you would love. She's like...what would happen if CJ Cregg was the daughter of Olivia Dunham and Laura Roslin, if Olivia Dunham was Queen of the Amazons and Laura Roslin was the Goddess Athena, and CJ Cregg was an Ambassador to the UN.

UM. But I think that like, I should talk with you about where it'd be best for you to start if you wanted to read it, and more about like, whether or not you'll hack the comic-factor when I'm not constrained to OMGS A SINGLE COMMENT.

So in the meantime I will talk to you about the SWIMSUIT!

Because, yes, the swimsuit. And apparently authors have wanted to change it for ages but DC wouldn't sign off on it because of its recognisability, even though it's been changed before (albeit long ago), until very recently (when they gave her pants) right in time to reboot the

[teenygozer]

Huh. Your thinky entry will be re-read a lot, I find what you have to say really fascinating. I love WW a lot, too, but I have to admit that I haven't been diligent about reading her comic. At one point I decided, as a fan, to (very innocently) read her actual first comics and was set back by the racism and fetishy-male-gazey-bondage that went on. I would definitely NOT suggest anyone read the original stuff. She's grown a lot over the years, but she's always been uncomfortable. We own a comic book store, so it would be easy for me to grab some comics out of the back-issue bins

[beccatoria]

YOU OWN A COMIC STORE?! THAT'S FUCKING AWESOME. No, seriously, that's awesomeYeah, I haven't tried to read her original stuff beyond a few random stories I read...I can't even remember when by this point, and I think it was later stuff than that anyway, but it's, um, weird. Mind you, most of comics was weird and racist and sexist and odd back then. And on top of that Wonder Woman was created by a pretty weird bloke. He had some good intentions, but you know, so did Freud