Holy sh... Racism drama!

[beandelphiki]

WOW. SO MUCH DRAMA in lj-land last night. I didn't get any schoolin' done.

So...people outside of feminist have been complaining for ages that the community lets white privilege run unchecked, and that it's exclusionary to women of color. The mods decide to fix this.

welsey makes a mod post explaining the new rules.

Based on some feedback, here are

Comments

[lordalfredhenry]

Interesting. It's something a lot of people should know about. That said, there might be one nitpick. Some incidents of prejudice are more harmful than some aspects of racism. Also racism doesn't need an institution to exist, it can be done be a person. I've always held that reverse racism didn't exist because racism is just "racism" and there are no "forward" or "backward" and to imply a "forward" somehow implies that one is somehow above or below or otherwise oriented as primary or perhaps more common (which might be the case but not a better point

[beandelphiki]

I'm laughing at "homophobia-ism." :P

In the context of what's being discussed there, racial prejudice can never be more harmful than racism, because a racist culture is always the larger context for racial prejudice. Hope that makes sense. Ask if it doesn't, I'll try to explain further.

Also racism doesn't need an institution to exist, it can be done be a person.

It's true that racial prejudice does not require institutionalization behind it; people of color can be prejudiced towards whites or towards each other, but this is not systematically entrenched in that they are capable of oppressing another racial group in our society. White racism IS systematic like that, and is oppressive. Again, I hope that makes sense.

Anyhow, I think it might only be controversial because it might be a deep subject to think about due to our day to day understandings or misunderstandings or blindness to what may exist beneathe our noses.

Exactly!

it is understandable to want to discuss but perhaps not to disagree with some policy that looks well

[lordalfredhenry]

I mean, only in individualized contexts, one act of racial prejudice can be worse than another but neither as bad as the racism. I mean, a black person killing a white person because of color is worse than denying a job to a black person and it is certainly true with the colors switched (and possibly worse because of "racism" as defined in the context being stated) but neither is as bad as racism as a whole and the racism exists where the side is strongest. I still don't think a "system" is necessarily racist because it has power because it could be diverse and fair but ours isn't. That's all

[beandelphiki]

Hrmm. Let me think on this and get back to you.

I'll just say that I think a lot of people there don't realize how long this has been stewing for, so to them it appears very sudden and arbitrary. Which may be in slight part reason for the reaction. Slight part.

I have such a headache.

[i_dreamed_i_was]

One guess where it came from.

I (or someone) will be on this in ap_racism soon. In the meantime, I posted a snark thread in dot_race_snark.

Re: I have such a headache.

[beandelphiki]

Oooh! I was just going to add that one! I forgot it at first, cuz I'm not a member, and it's not yours.

Weirdly, the people in OTF_Wank are driving me the most nuts, although I specifically went there to find the mocking. It does not particularly bother me that they disagree - I knew that, kittie and I have had discussions with people in there before, and I know what the atmosphere is like.

It's that I am somehow the "wankiest," or close to, (out of 800 comments?) so I may not be able to post there for a while without getting some sort of snarky response to every other comment. That's happened to some people.

Then again, this could fade away into OTF_Wank obscurity, as so many things do, but I am annoyed by the possibility that I may spend the next several months fielding snide rimshots about how wrong I am that white people are racist.

I don't even want to go there...

[i_dreamed_i_was]

with the OTF_wank. You know, you'd think there'd be more blackfolk stuff and such in some of these lj-drama-related places, but no one wants to publicize it when the POC are "winning."

Re: I don't even want to go there...

[beandelphiki]

OH YES. I just KNOW there are anti-racists and POC in there who would post, say, things like the zra shit. (And I don't think that got posted. I could be wrong, maybe I missed it. I'll have to check.) But a lot of it would be a mess.

Not that the _wank people are idiots. In general, I've noticed that the wank communities tend to be left-leaning and to be slightly more up on things than the general lj population. And there's a couple of good points being made over there that I'm not addressing because I'd rather not stick my neck out anymore. But...just as much "not getting it." And misunderstanding of linguistics. And so on.

[theclamsman]

SO WANKY YOU ARE!!1

[beandelphiki]

BUT I'M RITE AND TEHY'RE RONG!!1

So it's okay!

[theclamsman]

...And I hate communities that set their comments to "friends only". Fuckin' bunch of... ... ... :-*

[beandelphiki]

*larf* And it's the biggest feminist community on lj, too. I understand that they don't want to be overrun by trolls, but apparently there's 70+ people to be approved at any time. I think they need more mods.

You know, I didn't even apply to get in? Some mod just added me a bunch of months back. Somehow, that makes this just a touch more amusing to me.

[theclamsman]

*am still reading your wanky wank*

ha, I don't know if I'd even get in with my interests listed. XD! I could try, but I dunno if I'd be able to survive the testosterone-cannibalizing "womyn" there.

And have I mentioned lately how much I despise that stupid gender lingo, i.e. "hir" and "ze" and all of that shit? I do. I despise it. Which would probably make them all despise me. XD!!!

[beandelphiki]

I'll use it if someone identifies that way; I think that's basic respect. I take the stance that I'll use their pronouns if they use mine.

Otherwise, I figure "they" works perfectly fine.

Although I did prefer to be referred to as "hir" and "s/he" rather than the "she"s I got in there. "She" makes my eyes twitch; at least the person who used "hir" realized that they had no fucking clue what my gender is.

The majority, I think, don't use "womyn." A few over in fem_rage do, and I just ignore them. Talk about missing the whole point.

[blackbyrus]

I've been halfway watching what's going down in feminist. God...I feel so sorry for welsey right now. Sure, maybe there should be some clarifications or whatnot to the definitions, but that's why you discuss and learn. Outright disagreeing that racism is prevalent in many societies, is a global problem, and that people in power wield their prejudice in very, very different ways than oppressed people...name-calling and mud flinging...it's become such a zoo in there. Though that's to be expected when people get their privilege put right under their nose where they can smell it. :P
I agree that some people are taking it personally and getting defensive when they could be learning from POC experiences, or just treating others with basic human respect.

[beandelphiki]

I feel TERRIBLE for welsey. Basically she gets to listen to all the privileged white people complain that they're not allowed to say racist crap, and it's making them feel unsafe and un-empowered. And how much she and the other mods suck for making them feel that way.

If I were a mod of feminist right now, I think I'd nearly be in tears.