Perspective on atheist believers

[baxil]

I've seen the statistic cited a few times today that 21 percent of (American) atheists believe in a higher power, which is roughly as absurd as saying that 21 percent of vegetarians eat meat.

It's pretty easy to make more out of a statement like that than the data really implies, and people have been rightly skeptical. But in chipuni's discussion

Comments

[roaminrob]

Solid analysis, well done. FYI, chipuni's discussion thread appears to be friends-only

[roaminrob]

(...LJ doesn't allow me to edit my posts, which is yet another reason why I don't use it much anymore

[natetg]

Considering that mainstream religious beliefs tend to be auto-contradictory, it's no less consistent to simultaneously believe in god and the absence of god.

[frameacloud]

That would be Schrödinger's God.

[baxil]

If you're going to do what Schrodinger proposed, much kinder to do it to a god than to a cat!

(And, depending on what god(s) you use, it may or may not result in significantly fewer scratch marks.)

It's a feature, not a bug

[kevynjacobs]

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

Doublethink: simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs. -- George Orwell, 1984

[frameacloud]

Great stuff, Bax. Love it. :)

". . . which is roughly as absurd as saying that 21 percent of vegetarians eat meat."

An apt comparison, since the degree to which a person sticks to vegetarianism also varies from strict to loose, just as there is both "strong" and "weak" atheism. Not everyone agrees on whether fish counts as meat, and so some vegetarians eat fish... or some other animal product of controversial meatiness, each according to their religious guidelines, personal judgment, or health requirements. (See Wikipedia on semi-vegetarian diets.)

[kevynjacobs]

Thanks for the thought-provoking analysis.

I am one of those weird atheists who isn't an atheist. Or rather, I identify as an atheist in shorthand, but more accurately, I am a weak-atheist or agnostic, because I don't believe in god, but I can't prove she doesn't exist. I just don't know.

But it becomes even more complicated when I delve into what I really do believe. I strongly suspect that the Universe itself is a living, conscious organism (the Gaia hypothesis writ large). That doesn't mean that I think that the Universe is like the Xian God, watching the lives of us little humans, or consciously guiding our destiny. But I do strongly suspect that all of existence is a "higher power," in the same sense that *I* am a higher power a cell in my little toe.

No way to put that in a multiple-choice poll, so I just say "atheist."

[baxil]

Sounds something like pantheism.

But I agree, it's hard to condense that down into the sort of multiple-choice pigeonhole exercise that a poll like this is looking for. I have a similar problem describing my own beliefs to people who aren't already familiar with the term "Otherkin," but fortunately for me, "pagan" is such a broad umbrella that it's not inaccurate.

And while "agnostic" might be a better descriptor than "atheist" for you depending on the precise definitions you prefer for both terms, I can see why you wouldn't want to call yourself an agnostic -- inevitably that leads to people assuming you don't know what to believe, and pushing their own personal cosmology on you.

[kevynjacobs]

> Sounds something like pantheism.

I know, but where I differ from the pantheists is that I don't believe that the Universe is "divine," just alive.

One atheist open to the possibility...

[anonymous]

At first glance I was taken aback - for about a minute - then I realised I'm probably in the group that is 'atheist' but not totally closed to the idea there could be a creator. It really depends on how the question is worded. I wish I could see the questions to understand the answers.

As an open minded person, I can't discount the possibility that ancient astronauts tampered with our genes, or that an incredibly advanced computer travelled to our world an was such a creator. So my openness to a 'god' is not grounded in the supernatural - there is no evidence of such a thing. So the definition of atheist is not at stake here. The definition of god is.

(tony at veggiedude.com posted this)

Re: One atheist open to the possibility...

[baxil]

Tony,

The specific questions asked were:

"Do you believe in God or a universal spirit?"

If yes, ask next:
"How certain are you about this belief? Are you absolutely certain, fairly certain, not too certain, or not at all certain?"
And then:
"Which comes closest to your view of God? God is a person with whom people can have a relationship or God is an impersonal force?"

You're right, the concept of "God" packs in a lot, and the brevity of the questions didn't really allow for distinctions between (for example) "God, meaning creator" and "God, meaning omnipotent metareal entity." There's certainly room for further data gathering.

Thanks for stopping by. Can I ask how you found this post? Am I being linked elsewhere? (Livejournal doesn't offer referrer stats ...)

Re: One atheist open to the possibility...

[anonymous]

I found you via:

http://blogsearch.google.com/