Umps Blew a Big Call in the Braves/Cards Game.

[sauce1977]

This video probably won't last long, due to the fascist MLB lawyers, but watch what happens on a pop fly during the Braves/Cards game.

Click to view

The umpires ruled the ball under the infield fly rule, and on a ball that ended up traveling about 200 feet, that call was clearly wrong.

Story LinkAnd at the end of the video, you can see the debris thrown out

Comments

[jodamiller]

Yes, Cards fan here. But do you think that Kozma did not get under the ball with ordinary effort? The infield fly rule says nothing about location when it is an infielder who is going to make the catch. He seemed ready until he thought Holliday was coming in, then he moved. But he kept facing forward and could have made the catch without a leap or a dive. It appears to be ordinary effort, albeit near the end of his range.

An infield fly is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.

When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners.

[jodamiller]

Furthermore:

Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder-not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.

As soon as Kozma waved his arms to indicate a catch, the ump signaled infield fly.

[sauce1977]

If I'm not mistaken, I think you can call off the play if it turns out that the wind carried it farther than you thought it was going to go, at least, once he saw the guy heading into the outfield, he could have called off infield fly. Plus, wasn't it only like one ump that thought it was infield fly? It's not an irrevocable decision, they can just let the runners stay where they were, charge an error to the shortstop, and go from there.

It definitely wasn't ordinary effort, imo. Guy was entering the LF territory for it, and he goofed on the ball because he got his signals crossed with the outfielder. If he had just caught the ball, it would have been a much lesser mess, overall.

[gjenkins05]

I play by Yuniesky Betancourt rules, if Yuni B couldn't get to it, it's not ordinary effort. Yuni wouldn't have even been close.

[hermione_vader]

Maybe this makes up for 1985 from the Cards' POV? *runs and hides*

[sauce1977]

I'm of the belief that wrongs never completely cancel anything out ... I mean there are some exceptions, but in general, that old adage is true, two wrongs don't make a right.

Nice try tho, if people didn't have so much Twitter ADHD, you might have got a nice butthurt superfan to take yr trollbait. :D

[hermione_vader]

Alright, if there's one thing I'm not, it's a troll. This was a comment that I thought of and I left it here.

All I know is that if that had happened to us, we would not have reacted like a Braves fans did. You do not react that way, no matter what happens. If someone had tried that at Busch, that person (or those people) would've gotten called out; others would not have joined in. And yes, I am entitled to be appalled at such behavior. I mean Good Lord.

[sauce1977]

I tend to disagree about the behavior. I see soccer hooliganism, and throwing bottles on the field is pretty tame, in comparison.

Never said you were a troll.

[fsfwannabe]

The call itself is (technically) right. The problem is how long it took to make that call. But the problem is that without that call, it's a double play and any semblance of the Braves' rally is dead in the water.

Personally it reminds me of the dropped third strike call in the Angels-White Sox ALCS that gifted Pierzynski first base on a 2-2 dropped third strike because the home plate umpire took forever to call strike three.

[sauce1977]

Apparently, the ump made the call at the tail end of the pop fly, which would technically make it wrong, since by that time, it was way out in the outfield. By the loosest sense of the awful definition of the rule, the SS 'reasonably' got there. But it was the longest infield fly called all year, apparently.

Braves fans should def be kicking their team for putting them in such a deep hole first, if they're going to be mad at all.

[fsfwannabe]

Like I said though, that actually helped the Braves more because without that call, it's likely that Holliday or Kozma let that ball fall and the lead runner is dead to rights at third (or doubled off at second if he took too aggressive of a lead).

In the end, it's not even really a game-changing call. I don't think that ball is dropped without the infield fly call, so really, nothing changed either way.

[sauce1977]

It may or may not have been game-changing, but I definitely feel that was the wrong call to be made, especially so late into it. And if they had been doubled-up, it would have spoke to the general slump the team displayed. You probably don't want to advance on a pop fly, ever, it's a fundamentals thing. Even if you're Rickey Henderson in his prime, there's no telling if you'll get back to your base in time, especially on those short outflied fly balls

[ertai]

As a Braves fan, I am very upset about that call. Yes, I am also upset about the errors that probably had more impact on the actual game. But at least I can blame my team for that. When there's blame on the officials, then it moves from "choked" to "cheated". And it only compounds things by the stupid 1-game format.

So I can understand the anger of the fans and their initial tossing of trash on the field. But after the initial onslaught of trash, they really should have started throwing people out for tossing trash. There's no reason that the game needed to be constantly stopped and delayed. Toss out two or three people and those idiots would probably stop throwing trash.

[sauce1977]

I assume extreme offenders might actually have been thrown out ... I don't know if the broadcast highlighted anything other than the debris on the field, but it explicitly states in most stadium policies that if you obstruct play in any way (falling into the field of play trying to lunge out at a foul ball, throwing debris, starting a fight, etc), the stadium security has the right to remove the offender. Since it was a bum's rush of multiple debris-tossers, I doubt they got everyone, but anyone particularly animated or continuing the bottle-tossing after the first wave probably got removed

[ertai]

I would make the play in series a best of 3, all at the team with the better record's park. And if it takes 3 days, make the wildcard team play the next day.

I think the baseball post-season is really hurt by all the days off for travel. During the regular season, teams play almost every day. But it seems like in the post-season, you get an off-day every few games. Not only does that drag the series out, but it bastardizes the sport. You don't need depth in your rotation and teams that finish early have excessive time off (which people say hurts the hitters).

[sauce1977]

Best of 3 would be nice, since that would still give the other teams days off to prepare.

I'm not sure if days off hurt the hitters as much as not prepping with things such as studying the numbers on a guy or watching game footage of the pitcher hurts them. I think if they take BP and focus on the scouting reports, then 3 days off will only make guys more ready to go. Pitchers can be so different from day to day ... I don't think 3 days off would hurt as much as people say it does.

If anything, I think a break from action could really only hurt players in any sport, particularly mentally. I could see it from a layman's pov, say you work 9-5 Mon-Fri, and suddenly you have a week's vacation. When you come back that next Monday, you might not be checked into the job as firmly as you were before the vacation. Although to apply that to pro sports players, I don't think any of them actually treat a bye week or extended time off as a vacation. They conduct practices, and they're still very much concerned with the next game.