Horse Guru

[lantairvlea]

I haven't been to all the clinic, nor read all the books, and definitely not seen all the videos, but I have nosed about the training philosophies of different ... we'll call them "Horse Gurus." These are not people who train horses for a specific event. Most of their experience seems to come from simply getting horses to "behave" and work well

Comments

[spirithorse21]

I like the way you presented this. thanks

[lantairvlea]

Thankye and you're welcome. I was curious to see what others thought and where I might roam to next on my quest for more knowledge. I'm rather curious by nature and am also a veracious reader.

I do agree that a lot of them teach some of the same things: awareness of your body, awareness of your horse's body, and awareness of basic equine behavior and how this rules the interactions of the other two.

Yeah, I've vaguely toyed with the idea of getting certified (Lyons or Parelli), but for what I want to do (teach people how to ride/better communicate with their horses vs. fixing other people's problems) I think I'd rather gear my time towards becoming a certified riding instructor.

Free is always good *grin.*

[suchcuriousity]

Hi, I'm new to this comm, but thought I'd jump in on this discussion - a lot of people I know are REALLY into natural horsemanship

[candysgirl]

Personally I cannot stand Monty Roberts or his methods. I used to be a huge fan of his...until I helped out at one of his demos. Behind the scenes he's a jerk. Ordered us all around, shoved horses around, etc. I was VOLUNTEERING my time to help set up for this demo and he treated me like crap. He wasn't outright abusive, but he sure as hell isn't what he claims to be to all his followers

[dimturien]

*stands up and applauds* Very well said and I agree with you 100%! My horse got treated bad before I met her and it took me 5 years to get her to even think about trusting me. We've known each other for 8 years already and I think we're finally at the point where I can say that we trust each other and that we can rely on each other.

It took an awful lot of time but what we've got today was totally worth the wait.

ETA:
Totally forgot a to quote what my trainer's trainer once said.
"If I have a progress of only 1% a day than that's more than I can ask for."

[suchcuriousity]

I agree with you that people rush horses through training and that most people are completely uncommitted to the amount of time they need to put into training a horse. It's taken me four years to get my mare where I wanted her - four years of two steps forward, three steps back and so forth

[candysgirl]

I have mixed feelings on all of them. I think the NH thing has gotten extremely over commercialized. If you go back to the original guys promoting NH - before it was called NH - you go back to guys like Bill and Tom Dorrance, Ray Hunt, etc. They all said/did essentially the same thing all the big names are doing now. If you boil it down to basics everyone has to teach horses the same basic skills - yield to pressure, sacking out, tolerance of small/enclosed spaces, etc

[dimturien]

You know, all the things you've said so far remind me a lot of Mark Rashid's methods. Although he doesn't really have a method he just acts the way he thinks the horse might understand. If the horse doesn't understand him, he thinks about it and tries out different things.

That's what I do, too. It was hard to learn (and it still is) but it's really not that hard. The whole thing also helped me to be more patient with everyone around me, which is a nice side effect.

[ponywoman1105]

You said the magic word "patience". No getting excited and yelling or throwing things. My farrier does that shit. She used to hit my mare with a rasp when she "moved". Mostly to shift her weight. She's a good farrier but expects horses to stand as still as statues when she does them or she hauls a leg way up in the air and holds on. She believes that you have to totally control the horse and not give in.

So i believe a little patience goes a long damn way.

[tabascokat]

Bob Avila: LOVE HIM all his ideas, methods, etc, all moulded around the particular horse, but to achieve the same goal (a well broke horse) but with the knowledge all horses are different.

Clinton Anderson: hate the man -he pushes the horses too far. his ideas are ok. on paper.

Parelli: is a great salesman. I think if he atually trained a horse, he would do good, but he has too many gimmics, and you have to have all his stuff, or you can't be in his club. He not *that* special he's good, yes, but he's turned into a bussiness for the money.

John Lyons: totally a "do it my way, or GO AWAY kind of guy. All horses have to fit into one training mold. I'm sure his mould is good for some, but bad for others.

Craig Cameron: does things the old fashioned way, minus the man handling. Good with horses, like him, too.

Dennis Reis: undecided
Chris Cox: undecided

[lantairvlea]

I view Bob Avila a little differently as he is in the show world and not just catering towards the "backyard" horseman. I agree that he has some good ideas, but I have a few sticking points as I read his articles (Horse & Rider), but I admit I'm not terribly familiar with his overall philosophy.

On Lyons that was my one sticking point, when he said in his book something along the lines of "your method has to work with every horse, if it doesn't work with every horse it's not right." Which really makes me scratch my head as it cuts out the individuality of each horse.

I think one of the things about doing clinics is that you have people expecting to get that "trained horse" in an hour or so, which often encourages the clinician/trainer to work faster than he should. I think if one wants a really fair view of how someone works on regular circumstances they should either see videos or go to their "home base," but that's hardly ever possible, especially with the pace some of them keep!

[tabascokat]

THe one clinic I have been to was a Parelli clinic, and so far as education, my mind was bored to tears. For the most part,it was a good show.
Except the "problem" horse really wasn't a "problem horse" at all, so that part was really boring.

[lantairvlea]

I've been to an Anderson clinic and I was in a clinic for a local guy here. I learned a bit from both of them, one being that even guys who profess to know a lot can miss something that I felt was obvious.

Yeah, "a good show" is one thing, but I think it really should be to teach people rather than just showing off what you can get a horse to do or promoting "your program," which I get the feel that is what some clinics have become.