Petticoat Junction (warning: High-rez image heavy)

[attack_laurel]

Important Note:  All pictures in this entry are not open for anyone else to use, as they are scanned from my books for purposes specific to this post.  I could not find them anywhere on-line, and I need them to illustrate my wordy and overly-syllabic thoughts.  Please do not copy them, or use them on your web sites or diaries.  If you simply must

Comments

[mermadn]

I know I am of the ignorant here, but I always thought that petticoats referred to underskirts (sort of a slip) which is apparently not the case. Could you maybe discourse a bit on that for my further education, please? Thanks either way!

[attack_laurel]

Petticoat is the 16th century english word for skirt. Words get moved around in meaning a lot in English (we have been described as the language that lures other languages down a dark alley and mugs them for words), so at that time, "skirt" appears to refer to the tabs on the waistband of doublets, and "petticoat" means the skirts women wear.

As life moved on, and the English fashion changed so that there came to be more pieces of underwear (like slips, bloomers, knickers, etc.), "petticoat" started to be used to designate the stuff you wore underneath.

So, for the purposes of talking about 16th/17th century clothing, I say "petticoat", because it reminds me of the wording commonly in use then (as a persona thing, since I do living history).

I'm sure that's as clear as mud - let me know if you need more info. :)

[mermadn]

I like that more correct-to-period language is being utilized these days. The knowledge curve is getting higher all the time and I am trying to follow along where I can. Thank you for the knowledge you share!

[soldiergrrrl]

Thank you for asking this. I had assumed that petticoat referred to the overskirt, but at least you had the guts to ask. :-D

[attack_laurel]

Well, my thought is if it's pointed, it will stay anywhere (which also solves gappage). In the Dutch paintings, it appears to be worn slightly above the natural waistline (I can't find evidence of points), and the fit of the bodies appears to hold it up.

...However, one good step on the hem, and your skirt slips down, so I prefer to use points.

[fearga]

Oh! Oh! Oh! after Lizapalooza was out here this last April an d showed us all this great stuff, my student ran off and made a banded petticoat--and it looks *just* like several of those you show!! Any chance this could be an article on your site?

[attack_laurel]

Probably at some point... :)

[fearga]

Faboo! My student's band was *very* narrow--I was a bit concerned as she was sewing it on that she might have difficulty, as it's a wool skirt lined with linen, but doing it by hand makes such a difference.... *grin*. Buy the end of the day, it had rolled "in" and looked like a drawstring..

[attack_laurel]

This is what I'm figuring.

I also figure that there are people out there to whom this information is nothing new, but I like to pull it all together and write about it. :)

[mmcnealy]

If you'd like some German examples of narrow waistbands on petticoats, I've got some.

[attack_laurel]

I'm good - I tend to try and focus on English/Dutch exclusively, so I don't usually factor Italian/Spanish/German into my work (with the exception of the Tailor's Pattern Book, becuase that's the only resource for that level of pattern info). But thanks!

BTW, work has blocked my LJ message center; did you get my revised answer?

[mmcnealy]

I figured you were just focusing on English/Dutch fashions since they are closely related in style.

Yes, I got your answers, thanks so much for re-sending them!

[attack_laurel]

Pretty much - I can document the heavy crossover between the Low Countries and England, but the other stuff can get harder, especially when it comes to middle-class and lower dress. :)

Though some of the Netherlandish regional dress is awesome - you don't see it much in paintings, but there are a couple of crowd scenes by Steen and (I think) Van der Wyden that show some great regional outfits - completely different from what the Amsterdam middle class are wearing!

I just finished a great book (I need to review some of my recent purchases here) that posits that contrary to the Golden Age paintings, large cities would have far more people in regional outfits living and working (the crowd scene paintings bear this out). Also, that peasant clothing is exaggerated (especially in the cleavage area) for comedic/erotic effect. It's a fascinating and entertaining read.

[newperspectives]

You're doing fascinating work, as always, and have me re-thinking some of the projects I've been dreaming up. I have some things in progress, and a few more that are just shy of getting started, and I definitely want to play with some of your methods here.
I just finally got my own copy of PoF. yum.
Now, of curiousity, when you're doing all these points - what are you using for ties?

All this certainly makes me rethink how I'd perceived these clothes (especially before I got started), but it all makes a lot of sense...

[attack_laurel]

I either make my own ties from linen tape with a stitched end, or I buy sets from Historic Enterprises. I experimented with making my own, but I haven't really got into it yet. :)

[hsifeng]

http://hsifeng.livejournal.com/7867.html?view=125627#t125627

I did a little work on this awhile back, I still need to try the other two lacing styles (bad project monkey! no banana!), but the lucet cords have held up like a champ.

Now to convince sstormwatch to help me figure out fingerloop braiding...

[newperspectives]

I have done some fingerlooping, and honestly don't plan to do much more. I find it slow, and that over time it wears patches on my fingers a bit raw.
What I'm liking much better for actual efficiency of cord production is Whipcording -- much faster, hanging, bobbin-based technique. I can produce a lot more cord in a fraction of the time, and I think it's actually a nicer end product to work with, too.
Just food for thought and another thing to try...