Why do I bother?

[thrashbear]

The recent North Carolina vote started off a new wave of anti-gay sentiment, all of it bible- and faith-based.  I get into so many arguments with the religionists in the various online communities I am a part of.   I'm sick of having my arguments called "straw men" and "logical fallacies" all the while they pray to their invisible magical

Comments

[karnerblue]

The problem is not their idiotic beliefs -- it's their insistence on forcing the rest of us to live as if they are true. You cannot legislate religious beliefs into law, case closed. Well, alright, apparently, you CAN, but I have no idea how these laws escape being shot down by the Supreme Court, 'cause they're clearly unconstitutional. This is NOT a theocracy, on paper anyway -- if you want that, move to Iran.

[somniumdraconae]

This. I have no problem with anyone believing in a sky daddy or a fairy book. My problem starts when they start forcing their fairy book on me via laws that are clearly unconstitutional. I have freedom of religion too.

[blueflower15]

The problem is when all those legislators unabashedly proclaim to be against a law because it is "opposed to their moral religious beliefs" or the "majority's religious beliefs

Youre right, why bother

[dsound999]

We need to bother because faith based morality and ethics is a big part of how and why we are where we are. Faith based morality has caused wars and genocide. The universe isnt cold and uncaring, only idiots are, and there are atheist idiots and religious ones.
I do agree that faith based laws are probably unconstitutional. More importantly they are regressive, repressive, and anti-freedom. Using faith based mythology to argue in favor of such laws is weak and needs to be argued against by all of us without the frustrating emotion.

[siderea]

Well, I guess I see it differently than everyone above. I don't think the only problem is when they legislate their beliefs. I think the specific beliefs certain specific religious groups have, have consequences for their behavior and decision making, which impact the rest of us.

For instance, I'm concerned that the Abrahamic faiths (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) all involve venerating their god as a king. As an American and a bit of an idealist, I'm kinda into the idea of representative democracy. Growing up in New England, I was raised to believe that the one great thing that happened in this region is that we overthrew a tyrant and established the Rule of the People. I don't really see the values which promote aristocracy as being entirely commensurate with the values which promote democracy. The Abrahamic faiths promote among their adherents those virtues and attitudes that make one a good subject (as each of them sees it), not those of being a good citizenLikewise, I feel the whole "God the Father" thing has some

[raven_moon]

I very much agree - I think the entire premise is entirely too vulnerable to theocratic tendencies because of the nature of the narrative behind it.

That said, I think the flipside of this is equally important - there is a basic problem of credulity involved in any literal religious belief. This has, I think, become as big a problem in American culture especially (though not exclusively) because it tends to undermine rationality at it's most basic, and results in a population unable to think critically, to take responsibility for their thought processes, and to lazy to question claims, religious or otherwise.

These two elements together make a deadly combination, and for this reason I think it is vitally important to engage all 'shades' of religious individuals, if only to encourage the critical thinking process.

[thrashbear]

"Likewise, I feel the whole "God the Father" thing has some really unfortunate consequences for how people raised in those cultures conceptualize fatherhood. After all, the model of fatherhood that the Abrahamic god provides is necessarily one that is largely absentee, and occasionally punitive. That's not a healthy idea of fatherhood, and certainly not one that naturally leads to men being involved in the raising of their children (nor, for that matter, to women seeing men as necessary in the emotional lives of their children.)"

That is an amazing observation! I hadn't really thought if that but it makes perfect sense.

God: the ultimate deadbeat dad.

[chocolate_frapp]

one of the reasons I became an atheist in the first place was I got completely fed up with so many religious people's hate and prejudice against gays (and many other groups).