Hellfire

[ataxi]

For the last couple of days I've been listening obsessively to the album Mosaic by US folk artist Woven Hand, formerly known as 16 Horsepower

Comments

[j_is_for_jihad]

I haven't heard Woven Hand, but I dug 16 Horsepower's output for similar reasons, my favorite song being 'the strongman':

the strong man he will kneel down
whalst angels strip him of cloak and crown
through bitter lips come vile breath
he is the last one to confess
there will be no pity for him
we must kill him where he stands
no there will be no mercy for him
nor for any of his klan
let there be no hesitation
get a rope an make it quick
each last breath come from his mouth
i will beat it out with a stick
pray boy you've no reservations
the word will be carried out
he is the one who brought down the son
let there be no doubt
there is power wonder workin' power
in the blood of the lamb
there is power wonder workin' power
in the precious blood of the lamb
he's seated on the right handI know that for me the aesthetic attraction of the concept of things like hell, swift and ultimate judgment are titillating for the same reason Batman is. I'd figured for a while that my response was just residual training from my upbringing that hadn't

[j_is_for_jihad]

...said the atheist with a screenname referencing 'holy war'

[ataxi]

Yes. Aside from much else, I consider it a reason for preferring Catholicism to other Christian denominations, despite its tendency to even more totally disagree with me on issues of conscience than your average Uniting-style church. That and Catholicism's long history of inspiring beautiful art I guess*.

*shrug*

I was going to put this in my post, but didn't want to lower the tone. Might as well do it here though: when I took a step back, I realised it was moderately hilarious to observe a man rhyming 'Sodom' with 'bottom' with a perfectly straight face.

* underinformed opinion, subject to critique

[ataxi]

By the way, those lyrics seem very strong. I should try to find that earlier material instead of sitting here trying to imagine what it sounds like :-)

[tommmo]

Nice lyrics. You've definitely rekindled my interest. Woven Hand had been on my list for a few weeks, and I finally managed to track down some songs by them only in the last week or two. I was initially underwhelmed, but you've inspired me to give them a second chance :)

[ataxi]

Not sure. I don't appreciate the rest of the album quite so much when I give it close attention at the moment. A high proportion of it seems to be good though.

[_bigjobbies_]

I've added 'Consider the Birds' to my eMusic downloads for this month - thanks for the rec. (eMusic have the whole catalog, plus some 16HP)

According to eMusic, Edwards was raised the son of a traveling Nazarene preacher

[ataxi]

Hmm ... reminds me of a song that.

[alias_sqbr]

When you think about it much of fantasy relies on the awe inspired by originally religious imagery degraded by age into myth. Personally I see it as exorcising the religious side of my imagination, like video games are a release for violent impulses.

[ataxi]

I'd agree, with the qualification that "originally religious imagery" should be replaced by "imagery drawn from the well of the common ancestors of religion and fiction" or something similar. I don't think imaginative art and extended fantasy are derived from religious practice, they're more like cognate activities.

[alias_sqbr]

Oh, yes, I'm not saying all art is religiously inspired or whatever. But some of the major tropes of fantasy draw from specific religions to the same extent as "hell" comes from christianity, elves for example. Hmm, I'm sure I had better examples in mind when I wrote the comment but now I can't think of any :)

[prawnwarp]

I don't think it's hypocritical. The idea of Hell is like any religious idea or image, it has to reflect some aspect or aspects of the human psyche in a large number of people, or it couldn't be effective as a religious idea in the first place. On this reading, enjoying religious art is a way of exploring the way those particular ideas resonate with you. (For instance, Hell for me involves ideas about rebellion, guilt and irrevocable choices.)

Well, this is what I tell myself when I have qualms about the fact that I love Dante, but also believe that the idea of Hell is intrinsically immoral and has caused generations of Christians no end of unnecessary psychological anguish...

[ataxi]

"the idea of Hell is intrinsically immoral"

I agree, and so do quite a few Christians I think: the type that lean towards universal salvation. I did reread Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" recently though, which does a very good job of articulating a "need" for Hell and suffering.

[prawnwarp]

I haven't read that since I was a student. Should probably revisit it.

[ataxi]

On the actual topic: I don't seriously think admiring religious art is hypocritical. Just concluding my train of though with a barrage of rhetorical questions, much the way a German sentence carrying many subordinate clauses ends in a bombardment of verbs.

I might be more inclined to think so if it blatantly disagreed with my moral viewpoint. The disagreement would have to be far more blatant and less layered than what I get from the lyrics of 'Dirty Blue'. Those, because they seem in part a vituperative attack on thoughtless hedonism actually resonate quite strongly with one side of me, and feel like an attack on the other!

Still if that were hypocrisy one then strikes the same problem with so many secular works that the question becomes more general, and the answer still tends to be a more general 'no'.