um hm

[nandan]

My 10 year old is working with his therapist on making "maintaining comments" every time someone introduces a conversation topic.  These are as simple as "um hm,  oh yeah, really, man, bummer, awesome, cool, etc".  He is having an incredible amount of trouble with it to the point where he has baffled his therapist.   And of course, if you tell him

Comments

[brockulfsen]

He may have to focus so hard on what they are saying the prospect of having to monitor the conversational rhythm as well is overwhelming.

[nandan]

Perhaps we should be taking a music class instead, one with some version of call and response?

[velvetgunpowder]

That's the impression I got as well.

I don't know the situation beyond what is presented in this entry but it seems like processing issues to me.

I know that as an adult I have trouble in conversations where I'm on the phone and people think I've hung up because I don't respond properly. I respond to direct questions and don't intend on ignoring anyone but I am not good with the type "maintaining comments" you've described. I sit there thinking "You're supposed to say something, you should talk" about myself without forming words until someone asks me a questions like "Are you there?"

Even when someone "asks" me question but it's phrased as a statement I don't answer even though I should know that it's a question by the inflection even if it is phrased improperly.

Example: "Know what I like?" sounds like "Know what I like." (an order instructing someone to be aware of what one likes) and doesn't register as a question unless it's phrased "Do you know what I like?"

[griffen]

That's what I was thinking. Trying to make small talk is impossible, and I think it's cruel to try to make a ten-year-old process a conversation like this.

What bothers me about this kind of therapy is that it never teaches us how to actually hold an NT conversation. It just teaches us how to mimic one. The difference is obvious to NTs, which makes it pointless to learn it in the first place.

Frankly, I have never understood why I should have to provide "emotional reinforcement" in a conversation. What, the other person isn't secure enough to know that I'm listening? How pointless. Besides, a good conversation, for me, is the exchange of information, not the pointless hand-waving exchange of emotions.

[pet_lunatic]

Yes, and I think you're right in your interpretation. I feel that way too. I hav trouble with repetitive smalltalk (how are you, how's so and so, how's this, how's that - why not cover it all with 'how's everything?') because it all seems like such a waste of time. Sometimes, if somebody is telilng me a long anecdote over the phone, I'll listen in silence, and they'll keep asking me if I'm still there. To which my reply is, yes, of course I am, but you were talking, so I was being polite by staying quiet! But they expect some kind of confirmation that you're listening. Seems pointless to me, but because it's obviously important to others I try to do it. I'm sure your son will learn that too, once he can understand why it matters to other people. It might take a little more time, maybe even until he's an adult, but he'll get there!

[syntaxia]

Maybe he'd do better in an actual real conversation than in the "pretend" conversations he has with the therapist? If he knows he's being monitored for those comments, he might be experiencing anxiety and resistance to being forced to learn something that doesn't make sense to him.

I'm just going by my own experience with eye contact: if someone says I should make eye contact, that's the best way to actually make me avoid eye contact all the more, because I feel self-conscious. At other times, maybe I'm not the best at it, but I can manage some eye contact.

Did you explain to him why people expect such conversational comments? He might be less opposed if he knows that he's doing it to help the other person (by indicating his continued attention, by providing emotional reinforcement, by signaling that the conversational link is still open), rather than just to "pretend to be normal".

[kisekileia]

I was going to mention the idea of explaining the reason for these comments as well. I think it's important for him to know why they're important.

[nandan]

That's insightful. It has been explained that this is what we do to show the other person that we're interested, otherwise, they feel bad. But the idea of being "helpful" should perhaps be more stressed.

[bastetseye]

I've taking to saying "oh right" after someone makes a comment so that can understand that I've heard what their saying. The banalness annoys me but it helps in the long run so I don't have to constantly have them think I'm not listening.

Plus it's away of letting them talk even though I'm not really interested without letting them know that.

But I understand how your son feels, the pointlessness of making small talk and having to respond according to what makes them confortable but not what makes us comfortable can be frustrating.

There are times that even though I know to do this, I still give no response because a part of me can't understand why it's necessary to constantly have to give them reasurance. I can listen to someone but simply have nothing to say in response and have no desire to. I don't see why I should always have to.

[audrabaudra]

I was going to say something along the lines of this.

Maybe coaching your son on one phrase--"oh right," "yup," even "ok"--would be easier than his trying to make his way through "awesome, neat, cool, yeah, wow, mm hmm."

[mseclectic]

I don't understand why his therapist is baffled.

I got agitated reading your post. I'd resist it too.

[niyabinghi]

Ditto; the therapist could use some education it seems.

[luminousmotion]

yes. I know this may sound cheesy, but why conform to a "proper" way of having a conversation? Particularly when you're 10? I don't think someone is unable to function as they want to and live without being able to make(or care) about small talk.