Sam and Alex - Working in tandem to develop Gene's team?

[dorsetgirl]

Now that we have a comm for matters pertaining to both Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes, I thought I’d post some thoughts on the differing team dynamics in the two series

Comments

[lozenger8]

I do not have much to add, except that I concur with almost everything in this post. (The main exceptions being happiness at Chris seeing Sam as a mentor rather than a friend --- couldn't he have seen him as both? And Sam's reaction to Shaz. I think he'd be super enthusiastic to work with her and that he'd like her on a personal level. I sort of now want to write Sam/Shaz.)

I actually really like Alex in her interactions with Ray. It helps that Ray is more often the well-rounded Ray of LoM 2.03 in Ashes to Ashes, but she definitely does a much better job than Sam in just showing Ray some basic regard.

♥ Brilliant post, thank you, DorsetGirl!

[dorsetgirl]

Thank you!

And Sam's reaction to Shaz. I think he'd be super enthusiastic to work with her and that he'd like her on a personal level.

Hmm. Really, really can't see that, but I have no idea why. I look forward to being proved wrong!

Btw what's the plan for TAGGING here? Do I create my own? I'm thinking here "character study", list of characters, "compare and contrast series" owtte.

[lozenger8]

Since I can't actually prove why I think this (barring timey wimey trickery), I'll tell you how I see it happening. When Shaz first meets Alex, she offers her a drink. Assuming this happened with Sam, I see Sam responding to this favourably and after Gene shooting her down, attempting to talk to Shaz. At which point she may close up, or she may not. When Alex rambles on about why she's there, Shaz actually latches on to what she's saying and tries to make sense of it. I can see her doing this with Sam too.

Sam's always liked women --- they're the people he relates to first and foremost. His mother, his Auntie Heather, Maya, Annie. That's why Life on Mars feels a bit like a boy's own adventure on occasion, I think, because it kind of is, for Sam. We have no evidence he had many male friends in his time, but we have plenty that he was surrounded by women in his youth (LoM 2.04). He doesn't really seem to get blokey past-times (every episode, but particularly LoM 1.05.) It's sort of natural he'd relate to Shaz. He'd like her forward

[dorsetgirl]

Interesting points here - thank you! For some reason I can't quite believe in it, although as I said to steamshovelmama below, I would be beyond thrilled to see it happen.

[steamshovelmama]

I think you're on the ball with all of this - except maybe Shaz. I always had the impression Sam rather liked women in general and I think he'd have liked her down to earth outspokenness and dry humor.

One thing I'd add about Gene and Sam is that, for all his verbal put downs of Sam, Gene watches and learns from him and when he does he is often a great deal more effective than Sam. It's most obvious in the hostage episode when Sam is banging on about how to negotiate and how to connect with the hostage taker but fails to achieve what he understands in theory. Gene is as sarcastic as usual but he's the one who does exactly what Sam talks about and does it successfully. Basically I think quite often Gene hears Sam talking theoretical bollocks but then it helps him understand some of his own gut methods of policing and why they work.

[dorsetgirl]

Gene watches and learns from him and when he does he is often a great deal more effective than Sam

That's actually heartbreaking, but true! Perhaps Gene is really Superman. For all the noise and brutality, Gene is actually the most intelligent man, and very deep with it. He really does take on board Sam's theoretical bollocks because we're not talking about his real ones in this post and improve his own methods.

Gene is the sole reason I persevered through the dark days of Ashes series one; there's still more to find out about him and I am still very excited by that.

Nope, still not getting the Sam and Shaz thing, although as I said to Loz above I shall be very happy indeed if he shows up and likes her! As to getting on well with women, I think what we were shown in LoM was that he got on particularly well with soft, sweet boring traditional women. I dunno, I just see him totally failing to find any connection there, but I'm very happy to debate the issue!

Thank you so much for joining in.

[thesmallhobbit]

Excellent analysis. I don't think Sam would have stood a chance with Ray. Ray resented Sam from the start and didn't see why he should listen to a younger man. Even if Sam's people skills had been better he would have had a mountain to climb. As you say Ray will listen to Alex, because she's a woman and therefore he does not need to maintain the front that he has to have with Sam.

And thinking about it I think you're right about Shaz and Sam. He would be polite to her, and would use whatever skills he saw, so that his relationship would have been very professional, but it would remain at that level.

[dorsetgirl]

Ray resented Sam from the start

He did, didn't he, because he had hopes of getting the DI's job himself. So why was it so different with Alex? Because she was only a woman? I can't remember much about how he reacted to her at the beginning of Ashes, but I think it must have helped that she didn't have that strange mixture of being contemptuous and intimidated at the same time that Sam had going on.

[onbluebayou]

I love this post, it's fascinating. It makes me wonder how Sam and Alex would get along together - how would he have reacted seeing her if he was still around for her arrival?

I especially liked the part analysing how they behave with Ray. I can't really imagine Ray and Sam ever being frenemies like Ray and Alex (bickering but also laughing over drinks, with Ray allowing Sam to talk about Ray's feelings and kissing him on the cheek? Lol. I dare someone to write fic about Sam and Ray getting to that point).

[dorsetgirl]

Thank you! Good point, I didn't consider that particular relationship. I think Sam would be deeply disconcerted to see Alex there, simply because this woman is his psychologist and knows a lot more about his feelings for this world than he would like its inhabitants to know about. (I still cling hopefully to that line of Alex's a long time ago, "Somebody fell in love with you once." And she definitely didn't mean herself at that time.)

I sort of see Sam, once he'd got over the initial shock, over-reacting somewhat and wanting to get all (platonically) private with Alex and talk about what this world means and what he thinks of the personalities and methods. Depending on the circumstances that might bring him back to Gene's world, Alex might be in danger of having to function as Sam's psychologist all over again.

Ray allowing Sam to talk about Ray's feelings and kissing him on the cheek?

Won't happen on this earth. And that's just the talking bit.

Hi, by the way, and welcome! Haven't seen you around before, I think.

[onbluebayou]

They'd probably have an argument about who's imagining who x)

Hi ^^ I'm here via the newsletter. I haven't been as active in fandom as I used to be when LoM was still airing. I miss it

[dorsetgirl]

That would explain it. I didn't even discover fandom as a concept until after LoM 2.08

They'd probably have an argument about who's imagining who

LOL!