I don't have any big answers for you, but I wanted to express my appreciation of your deep thought on the subject. It's frankly more than the writers deserve: they really have cut so many corners and ignored all but the biggest chunks of canon at one time or another that their dependence on fans to mortar the bits together with careful thought and fanfic is just shameful.
I enjoyed the episode, but I've finally concluded that my inability to remember the details of SPN in the last couple of seasons is not (just) aging-brain syndrome, but the fact that the details have no emotional or intellectual coherence.
Beat-up Dean! Angry Sam! Separate them again! It all sounds like writers-room brainstorming in search of a good solid story idea that never came.
but I wanted to express my appreciation of your deep thought on the subject
:D It is quite ridiculous how much thinking I've done over this. (In fact I think I might have just picked up a speeding fine because I was concentrating on this and not my driving!).
I am still emotionally attached to the show - even after everything they're put the boys through - but one more episode like that I might have to start pulling myself back. If I can.
I am glad you enjoyed the episode though. I really wish I had done. But its inconsistencies have frustrated me beyond reason.
*hugs* and thanks hun. I've found chatting about it at least therapeutic. xx
This doesn't really answer your question to a deeper reason for Crowley not wanting Sam along but in terms of the plot my reading of the episode was that it was setting up a mirror, in terms of reversing the boys previous positions. That is previously Dean would never have trusted a demon (and Sam has), and Sam was adamant that he would never say yes to Lucifer (and Dean obviously has just been considering this). By reversing their positions both in relation to their own stance, and in each brother now considering the very thing he'd warned his brother about, the show is emphasizing both the boys' increased understanding of his brother and also OMG THIS IS DIRE ITS THE APOCALYPSE - ie a time when one considers the unimaginable.
Remember, the show loves mirroring both characters and situations.
Yes. That makes sense. I do like the way they use mirrors and that could well have been another reason why they chose to have Dean do the leaving. In fact, may have been the initial thought that drove the whole situation.
So it's like in one episode they gave us the Dean version of Sam and Ruby. (well, not exactly of course..) Even down to having Dean betrayed by the demon. And Sam left feeling a sense of betrayal.... hmmm.
Thanks. It still left me completely frustrated and annoyed but I like that there could have been more thought behind this than I initially gave it credit for.
It disappoints me that I'm so disappointed in my show over such a stupid nothing episode.
Oh yes. Me too. It's like (for me anyway) - "just get over it already. It's just one episode!" And really, I will... as long as the next 2 make more sense. :)
And I like the idea that season 6 could be the redeeming season... :)
I know I have bitched and complained, but as I said in my first post it's only because I care so damn much. I still love my show and my boys. And I really hope I still can in the future. I'd hate to have a falling out with my show. (I know some fans have and I feel sad about that...)
Oooh! Your episode sounds awesome! I like me some capable Sammy! Okay, you're hired! Hmmm... now I have to get their producers to recognize my hiring authority. This could take a while...
Crowley knew Sam knew Brady and that things would get ugly fast once Sam realized Brady was possessed, and Crowley needed Brady alive. So he only wanted Dean to go with him because Dean did now know Brady. That's it.
Ok. I get that. Dean was less of an immediate to Brady. In fact it wouldn't have mattered if Brady had killed Dean. Because he still would have had Brady. But then he would have had a very pissed Sam.
So now I'm not sure why Crowley even needed the Winchesters. He could have just gone and got Brady himself and then maybe taken him to the Winchesters for interrogating. Though even then he could have done that himself because he had the bigger hell hound etc. (though I'm pretty sure Brady just wanted to "play" the Winchesters anyway, so that gives him a reason for involving them I suppose. In fact. That it would seem to be the only reason. grrrr)
*sheesh* I'm talking myself into knots.
Thanks hun. I can definitely see that Dean was less of a threat. I still don't like it. At all. But that does make some sense.
Well Crowley needs Sam and Dean because they have two of the rings so he needs to be in 'bed' with them in order to stop Lucifer. THEY are the only ones with a shot. And we've already seen that he is reluctant to do this by himself. He only went into the den of demons because he had no other choice - and really? How do we know he even went? It could have been a ploy.
Personally I think Crowley is being set up as their enemy for the next season as I don't trust him and Dean was written as just being stupid for going with him. Sloppy writing, in my opinion.
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I enjoyed the episode, but I've finally concluded that my inability to remember the details of SPN in the last couple of seasons is not (just) aging-brain syndrome, but the fact that the details have no emotional or intellectual coherence.
Beat-up Dean! Angry Sam! Separate them again! It all sounds like writers-room brainstorming in search of a good solid story idea that never came.
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:D It is quite ridiculous how much thinking I've done over this. (In fact I think I might have just picked up a speeding fine because I was concentrating on this and not my driving!).
I am still emotionally attached to the show - even after everything they're put the boys through - but one more episode like that I might have to start pulling myself back. If I can.
I am glad you enjoyed the episode though. I really wish I had done. But its inconsistencies have frustrated me beyond reason.
*hugs* and thanks hun. I've found chatting about it at least therapeutic.
xx
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Remember, the show loves mirroring both characters and situations.
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So it's like in one episode they gave us the Dean version of Sam and Ruby. (well, not exactly of course..) Even down to having Dean betrayed by the demon. And Sam left feeling a sense of betrayal.... hmmm.
Thanks. It still left me completely frustrated and annoyed but I like that there could have been more thought behind this than I initially gave it credit for.
xx
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(The comment has been removed)
Oh yes. Me too. It's like (for me anyway) - "just get over it already. It's just one episode!" And really, I will... as long as the next 2 make more sense. :)
And I like the idea that season 6 could be the redeeming season... :)
I know I have bitched and complained, but as I said in my first post it's only because I care so damn much. I still love my show and my boys. And I really hope I still can in the future. I'd hate to have a falling out with my show. (I know some fans have and I feel sad about that...)
*hug* thanks sweetie.
xx
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I can see the fans storming the writing room now. "Move over guys. We know where this show should be going....!"
Hmmm.
*goes back to making vids*
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Ok. I get that. Dean was less of an immediate to Brady. In fact it wouldn't have mattered if Brady had killed Dean. Because he still would have had Brady. But then he would have had a very pissed Sam.
So now I'm not sure why Crowley even needed the Winchesters. He could have just gone and got Brady himself and then maybe taken him to the Winchesters for interrogating. Though even then he could have done that himself because he had the bigger hell hound etc. (though I'm pretty sure Brady just wanted to "play" the Winchesters anyway, so that gives him a reason for involving them I suppose. In fact. That it would seem to be the only reason. grrrr)
*sheesh* I'm talking myself into knots.
Thanks hun. I can definitely see that Dean was less of a threat. I still don't like it. At all. But that does make some sense.
xx
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Personally I think Crowley is being set up as their enemy for the next season as I don't trust him and Dean was written as just being stupid for going with him. Sloppy writing, in my opinion.
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