I agree about Berens! He writes by far the most powerful emotional scenes.
Not a fan of this episode. Particularly since Sam was tortured by Toni and I doubt he'd be so easily assuaged by being told Toni had "gone rogue". Particularly after her henchwoman beat the living shit out of Cas and Dean. But then I don't like the BMoL, and Mary endangered her sons when she wouldn't turn over the Colt. To me it's the same destructive pattern her sons have. Except that if it was Sam or Dean facing death if they didn't turn over the Colt, they'd do it in a hot minute.
Yeah - I mean there are a lot of problematic elements to the storyline and I think these mostly come because of the different writers. Mary endangering her sons (and not being prepared to save them by revealing that she had stolen the colt) is pretty close to unforgivable. It's why I liked Sam and Dean's initial reaction to he confessing in this episode.
I'm liking the theory that Sam has said yes because he would rather be on the inside (and know what they are up to) than being on the outside. I'm not convinced they'll play that line - so we'll just have to see.
I think I like the BMoL because of the moral questions and the potential storylines from that (that's not to say I feel confident they'll do them justice).
\o/ I loved this ep too!!!! And yes Berens clarified some things, whilst also writing some wonderful family drama moments - I thought they were all top notch. Because yes, Mary is not just a mom, and her children are now adults, and that's confusing for everyone. I also love how Sam is sort of playing the peacekeeper in the middle like Dean did with Sam and John - I think that's all kinds of cool (I don't know if it was done purposefully, but I love it!)
I too could understand Sam seeing the bigger picture here, putting his own pain and distrust aside in the hope of a greater good, but perhaps once he knows all the bad they've done (Poor Magda and those special agents) this will change. They certainly don't see the shades of grey that our boys do, and I think there's going to be a clash when it's revealed.
I'm looking forward to seeing how all of this will unfold! Take care ♥
I hadn't thought about the parallels between Dean being the peacekeeper between Sam and John and now Sam being the peacekeeper between Dean and Mary. But now that you mention it - totally right.
*nods* Pretty much the reasons why I liked it. :) I like the idea of Sam being peacemaker between Mary and Dean - though I also liked that he took Dean's side when reached out to him and he said "you better leave". :)
I found it really hard to hear Dean tell Sam to "pick a side" - but I think that's why he made the final decision to join. He chose a side - we don't fully know his reasons yet (maybe just thinking he can do more help with them, or to be onside with Mary, or to have a chance at some revenge for his torture...).
I'm really hoping they play this out in an interesting way. :)
I really, really REALLY wish they would have one single writer. I don't understand why they need so many different ones for a show like this. It is so obviously going to introduce inconsistencies and overall weaken the vision. At most, I think they should have a team of two or three - the show runner, and no more than two other writers to bounce ideas around and prevent them from getting stale or getting bogged down.
BUT - I too loved this episode. It made me much happier and full of anticipation for the rest of the season instead of vague dread! I'm not sure if Dean will join them, at least not straight away, and I still dislike the BMoL, but that's not as a plot device, it's just I don't like the cut of their jib. The only thing that's bugging me at the moment is the way the BMoL is making Brits look like either idiots or arrogant or any number of negatives, and that gets my back up. But it's a common American thing, so I guess I just have to smooth down my raised hackles! LOL
I wonder how long it takes to write an episode. Some shows only have one writer - but maybe they write them all in a year and then it's handed over for the filming.
The only thing that's bugging me at the moment is the way the BMoL is making Brits look like either idiots or arrogant or any number of negatives, and that gets my back up.
Yes! It's really giving the brits a bad name. ;/ I'm hoping we might end up with a more positive figure in amongst them all. I'm thinking that one of them might "turn" once they get on side with Sam and Dean's method of hunting.
I also don't like the BMoL (as a group) but Ketch and Dean's chemistry in the last episode was fab - the guy who plays Ketch seems to be having a great time - that's what I'm enjoying. The characters are growing on me.
You're going to get this twice coz I forgot to logout as RBB before posting... and it marked it as spam too!
Yep, Mick and Ketch are growing on me too now we are getting to see a bit more of them, and I'm getting better at blocking Mick's terrible accent, in particular!
I just read a really interesting journal entry here: http://hells-half-acre.livejournal.com/497052.html about writing from Robbie Thompson's POV - it cast some light on the mechanics and constraints they are under...interesting stuff!
The accents aren't bothering me so much - but I think because, even though I am technically English, I don't live there and don't hear the accents every day. :)
I'm actually thinking Mick might be the one to crack - in terms of turning. Maybe.
I really enjoyed this ep, too. Loved the dialogue at the beginning, we rarely have had the Winchester talking things through so openly and coherently, normally it's just hints and grunts and looks. Nice to see them evolving. And great writing and acting, so good to hear Dean reflect that he is not a kid anymore and parents have a right to making their own choices and decisions and that one can stay close even if one disaproves of those decisions. That's a rare sentiment to be seen on mainstream TV shows, but such a big thing in real life.
we rarely have had the Winchester talking things through so openly and coherently, normally it's just hints and grunts and looks.
This! I kept thinking they were going to stop, but it just kept going. It was a nice change. And it was so snappy and I love that Mary didn't back down (even with the audience pretty much against her after what she did to her boys). And Dean's face...:(
Could be because I've loved the alpha vamp, since way back in season six and hated to see him go.
Oh me too! I love Rick Worth in this role. It was such a shame he had to go. :(( Though it was a thrill to see him again.
Is it ethical to eliminate complete races of monsters which despite their danger to humans, are part and parcel of this supernatural world.
I think this is why I'm enjoying this so much. I think this is the very point about the BMoL vs Sam 'n Dean. It's a revisit from the "shades of grey" theme from S2 and as the show seems to be doing a revisit of the earlier seasons, I think this is what they are exploring with the BMoL storyline.
I have to say, I'm not really into the BMOl story-line. I prefer when the brothers are together, hunting monsters the old fashioned way, living in crappy motel rooms, using fake credit cards and shooting pool, instead of stationing in the comfortable bunker, having shiny-new, perfectly ironed clothes, and disposing of a nebulous cash income, from who knows where.Oh me too, very
( ... )
"I think this is why I'm enjoying this so much. I think this is the very point about the BMoL vs Sam 'n Dean. It's a revisit from the "shades of grey" theme from S2 and as the show seems to be doing a revisit of the earlier seasons, I think this is what they are exploring with the BMoL storyline
( ... )
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Not a fan of this episode. Particularly since Sam was tortured by Toni and I doubt he'd be so easily assuaged by being told Toni had "gone rogue". Particularly after her henchwoman beat the living shit out of Cas and Dean. But then I don't like the BMoL, and Mary endangered her sons when she wouldn't turn over the Colt. To me it's the same destructive pattern her sons have. Except that if it was Sam or Dean facing death if they didn't turn over the Colt, they'd do it in a hot minute.
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I'm liking the theory that Sam has said yes because he would rather be on the inside (and know what they are up to) than being on the outside. I'm not convinced they'll play that line - so we'll just have to see.
I think I like the BMoL because of the moral questions and the potential storylines from that (that's not to say I feel confident they'll do them justice).
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I too could understand Sam seeing the bigger picture here, putting his own pain and distrust aside in the hope of a greater good, but perhaps once he knows all the bad they've done (Poor Magda and those special agents) this will change. They certainly don't see the shades of grey that our boys do, and I think there's going to be a clash when it's revealed.
I'm looking forward to seeing how all of this will unfold! Take care ♥
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Dean being the peacekeeper between Sam and John and now
Sam being the peacekeeper between Dean and Mary.
But now that you mention it - totally right.
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I found it really hard to hear Dean tell Sam to "pick a side" - but I think that's why he made the final decision to join. He chose a side - we don't fully know his reasons yet (maybe just thinking he can do more help with them, or to be onside with Mary, or to have a chance at some revenge for his torture...).
I'm really hoping they play this out in an interesting way. :)
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BUT - I too loved this episode. It made me much happier and full of anticipation for the rest of the season instead of vague dread!
I'm not sure if Dean will join them, at least not straight away, and I still dislike the BMoL, but that's not as a plot device, it's just I don't like the cut of their jib. The only thing that's bugging me at the moment is the way the BMoL is making Brits look like either idiots or arrogant or any number of negatives, and that gets my back up. But it's a common American thing, so I guess I just have to smooth down my raised hackles! LOL
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The only thing that's bugging me at the moment is the way the BMoL is making Brits look like either idiots or arrogant or any number of negatives, and that gets my back up.
Yes! It's really giving the brits a bad name. ;/ I'm hoping we might end up with a more positive figure in amongst them all. I'm thinking that one of them might "turn" once they get on side with Sam and Dean's method of hunting.
I also don't like the BMoL (as a group) but Ketch and Dean's chemistry in the last episode was fab - the guy who plays Ketch seems to be having a great time - that's what I'm enjoying. The characters are growing on me.
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Yep, Mick and Ketch are growing on me too now we are getting to see a bit more of them, and I'm getting better at blocking Mick's terrible accent, in particular!
I just read a really interesting journal entry here:
http://hells-half-acre.livejournal.com/497052.html
about writing from Robbie Thompson's POV - it cast some light on the mechanics and constraints they are under...interesting stuff!
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I'm actually thinking Mick might be the one to crack - in terms of turning. Maybe.
Thanks for the link. I'll take a read. :)
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This! I kept thinking they were going to stop, but it just kept going. It was a nice change. And it was so snappy and I love that Mary didn't back down (even with the audience pretty much against her after what she did to her boys). And Dean's face...:(
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Oh me too! I love Rick Worth in this role. It was such a shame he had to go. :(( Though it was a thrill to see him again.
Is it ethical to eliminate complete races of monsters which despite their danger to humans, are part and parcel of this supernatural world.
I think this is why I'm enjoying this so much. I think this is the very point about the BMoL vs Sam 'n Dean. It's a revisit from the "shades of grey" theme from S2 and as the show seems to be doing a revisit of the earlier seasons, I think this is what they are exploring with the BMoL storyline.
I have to say, I'm not really into the BMOl story-line. I prefer when the brothers are together, hunting monsters the old fashioned way, living in crappy motel rooms, using fake credit cards and shooting pool, instead of stationing in the comfortable bunker, having shiny-new, perfectly ironed clothes, and disposing of a nebulous cash income, from who knows where.Oh me too, very ( ... )
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