Putting it out there...

[ash48]

Pondering this lately because I've been warning to write something about this ('cause of reasons…). Are Sam and Dean actually codependent? Zachariah said they were and they are often referred to by fans as codependent (both negatively and positively). But are they?

Comments

[tebtosca]

you left out the only word that should describe them: PSYCHOCHESTERS \o/

[ash48]

dammit! Yes I did indeed!

[citrusjava]

[ok, did some more research, editing]
I did a little research on this some time back, and I am NOT sure my information is correct, but from what I could gather, it doesn't fit them very well. I agree that they are very attached to each other, and take, shall we say, liberties that don't respect boundaries enough. Regardless, shaming people for nit being normative or squeaky-clean healthy, sucks.
The definition above is pretty cruel, imo.

OK - so it isn't even in the DSM, and some argue that it is basically a healthy thing.
According to the proposed and rejected DSM entry, though, yeah, it does sound like them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependency#Failed_proposal_for_inclusion_in_DSM

[ash48]

Wow, it does sound like them…

Regardless, shaming people for nit being normative or squeaky-clean healthy, sucks.

this is a little a long the lines of something I want to write about. Or rather…people who watch (and enjoy/am intrigued by) that aspect of their relationship.

Thanks so much for the link. It seems the definition of codependency isn't easily defined...

[amberdreams]

Ticked the 'no single word' box because there are elements of codependency in their relationship, elements of disfunction, but there are also a lot of other things going on there that are not dysfunctional, and are actually things you would expect/want to see in a loving relationship. Plus you can then throw in all the sibling stuff - rivalry, competitiveness, teasing, supporting, defending etc etc...

[ash48]

*nods* I actually think it's not easily defined - quite possibly because it's a fictional (almost fantastical) relationship and therefore doesn't fit any kind of "norm". Perhaps their relationship needs a new definition. A new word...

[amberdreams]

Yep - just call is a Winchester relationship and you have it nailed!

[ash48]

Hee, yes. I'd like to see that one turn up in medical journals. Someone comes in diagnosed with "Winchester" relationship syndrome and the psychiatrist runs a mile. Too hard to sort out!

[madebyme_x]

I ticked 'there's no single word that describes their relationship' because yes, I think there's definitely elements of codependency there but it's mixed up in whole bag of other issues. Basically they're complicated.

But yes, in fandom I've definitely called them codependent before but I guess I meant it as more of a fandom definition, like our own way of describing the Winchesters that we all understand, but maybe an outsider wouldn't?

[ash48]

Basically they're complicated.

Word!

but maybe an outsider wouldn't?

Ah, yes. That's interesting. I always wonder how "outsiders" view things. Probably just..."shrug* they're brothers. That's what brothers do. (or probably don't even think much about it. I need to take a leaf I think...;D)

[madebyme_x]

It is interesting, right?! Because I think in my own head 'codependent complicated' is how I would describe them to my flist and I think we all know what I'm referring too, that twisted and unhealthy but wonderful relationship that they share and we love. But an outsider may take a more 'dictionary' definition of that and not quite understand.

[fanspired]

I think at the time when Z. said it it was a willfully reductive analysis. And I think that it was significant that what went wrong in S4 happened mostly because they stopped depending on each other and erroneously placed their faith in external agencies instead.

[ash48]

*nods* and continues to be so I think. They often play with the consequences of them not depending/trusting each other.

I wonder though if the term codependent as a way of describing their relationship was first used after Zach mentioned it. Hmmmm

[fanspired]

Oh, yes. I'm certain that's where it's all come from.