Okay, that whole dang post just made me cry! I think Sam is constantly trying to prove himself to Dean. Not that Dean asks him to - it's just because he's the little brother who wants his big brother to be proud of him and to trust him.
I'm puzzled why I'd read some comments (not on LJ mind) that Sam was being selfish when he mentions Dean turning to Benny and Cas
You know I love you and Sam, but Sam totally spent a lot of this season acting like a little jealous pain in the ass.* This was basically the only emotion I got from Sam in the first arc of the season with regard to Dean.
*(As did Dean, although Dean was pretty justified in being pissed about being forsaken by Sam since Sam never gave him a good reason he didn't look for him. Not that there definitely WASN'T a good reason, just that Sam (and the Show) never communicated one.)
If the show was going to make this whole season about Sam making his "failings" up to Dean, their approach was, shall we say, too subtle for me to catch...
Ah! Ok.. see, yes. I was thinking that also. I pretty much hated the first half of the season (well, not all of it - I liked Dean in Purgatory and I liked Benny).
I suppose I'm not entirely convinced that they set out make it all about making his failings up to Dean - but I do think it was a theme they were playing with. I'm in two minds about how I feel about that - on the one hand - NO, we've been there and Sam shouldn't be feeling this and grow up Sam etc., but on the other hand I WANT to see this stuff from Sam. I want Sam's failings to matter. And yeah, it could be argued they aren't really failings but from Sam's POV I can see that they would be
( ... )
*shrugs* I don't know. Honestly I thought this season was such a mess that the only hope I have is that maybe they've wiped enough of the slate clean that they can paint the picture they want to paint in S9 and S10.
Hey - I was just thinking. Is that because of they way I've set up my blog? I know with some designs it's really hard to find the reblog and like buttons...
After watching all of it and thinking about it, I agree with you. I feel better about season 8, having seen it all. And that there was some plan, even though the execution wasn't so great at times. *coughs* Understatement *coughs
( ... )
I wouldn't want him to turned into an angel, though. But maybe he can be purified nonetheless and finally feel like he's not the freak anymore.
Yeah, I can't see that they'd go the way of turning him into an angel - but maybe if he'd completed the trial he'd die and...um...go to heaven purified, or something? I wonder if we'll get answers to that next season.
about Sam being selfish and Dean being an asshole in the finale
Yeah, I know it's not one sided. I always see both of them as having flaws and much of it exists in order to create the drama. I can never see either of them in a negative light - even when they are doing negative things. It's always for a reason. With at least 2 seasons to go it's unlikely these issues will be resolved quickly...;)
I am very excited for S9!! (I didn't think I would be, but I am now...:) )
I can never see either of them in a negative light - even when they are doing negative things.
Yeah me neither. I don't get people always picking on one of them. They both have flaws. And hey, that's why I love them so much, because they're human. :)
(I saw a suggestion that the lights could represent where the angels were falling??? Neat idea...)
That's what I assumed it meant right away. And I totally agree with your thoughts re Sam reacting to the mass angel-fall. The final trial never completed, and he appeared to have fought off the onset of symptoms, so it HAD to be a reaction to the angels falling.
some comments (not on LJ mind) that Sam was being selfish when he mentions Dean turning to Benny and Cas (not wanting Dean to have friends). My reaction is ... UM...WHAT?!?! I know we all watch the show differently (and that's OK!!), but Sam being selfish? Wasn't that all about Sam thinking he keeps letting Dean down? That Dean couldn't turn to him because he thought Dean doesn't trust him? I dunno. I just can't see selfishness in that moment. As a Dean!girl who loves Sam, I'm with you there. I don't get it, either, but I have for sure seen comments like that coming from those who have no love for the younger Winchester. I'm not really surprised that those folk would see "
( ... )
Yeah. It's so clear now. During the ep I thought it was the after effect of the trials. But Sammy got a double whammy...
Fandom, man, what're you gonna do? :/
Yeah and I don't get into any discussions about it outside of LJ because I get that people have set ideas about the characters. I suppose I can see how Sam could be seen as selfish, but I've never seen that in him (even in S1!), so I'm probably a little blind to it anyway...;D
Man, I can't WAIT to see how the trials aftermath / fallen angels business plays out next season. TPTB better not time-shift, or gloss over, or otherwise screw that up.
I don't get into any discussions about it outside of LJ
"Set ideas", you're not kidding. I've had my throat jumped down a few times too many for raising "unpopular" opinions on my own LJ. It ain't safe NOWHERE. :P I refuse to surround myself with all Dean!girls or all Sam!girls (and simply avoid the extremists), because, as amber1960 says below, SPN is about the brothers. Not Sam!only, not Dean!only, not the supporting characters, but the brothers Winchester.
Agreed that they can both be quite ridiculously selfish at times -- I spent the first ten episodes of S8 itching to smack both of them upside the head, but I don't believe that Sam's comment re angels and vampires arose from "jealousy" and "not wanting Dean to have other friends." (Seriously, wtf?)
I really don't understand the people who are so polarised in their views of one of the brothers that they virtually seem to hate and loathe the other one. Surely they are missing the whole point of the show, that it's about two brothers - and that they love each other for f**(k's sake. I'm a Dean girl through and through but my heart had bled for Sam many times and as far as I'm concerned you can't have one brother without the other.
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Sniff!
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Sam has that effect on me too. <3
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You know I love you and Sam, but Sam totally spent a lot of this season acting like a little jealous pain in the ass.* This was basically the only emotion I got from Sam in the first arc of the season with regard to Dean.
*(As did Dean, although Dean was pretty justified in being pissed about being forsaken by Sam since Sam never gave him a good reason he didn't look for him. Not that there definitely WASN'T a good reason, just that Sam (and the Show) never communicated one.)
If the show was going to make this whole season about Sam making his "failings" up to Dean, their approach was, shall we say, too subtle for me to catch...
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I suppose I'm not entirely convinced that they set out make it all about making his failings up to Dean - but I do think it was a theme they were playing with. I'm in two minds about how I feel about that - on the one hand - NO, we've been there and Sam shouldn't be feeling this and grow up Sam etc., but on the other hand I WANT to see this stuff from Sam. I want Sam's failings to matter. And yeah, it could be argued they aren't really failings but from Sam's POV I can see that they would be ( ... )
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xx
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And thanks! <3
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I know with some designs it's really hard to find the reblog and like buttons...
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Yeah, I can't see that they'd go the way of turning him into an angel - but maybe if he'd completed the trial he'd die and...um...go to heaven purified, or something? I wonder if we'll get answers to that next season.
about Sam being selfish and Dean being an asshole in the finale
Yeah, I know it's not one sided. I always see both of them as having flaws and much of it exists in order to create the drama. I can never see either of them in a negative light - even when they are doing negative things. It's always for a reason. With at least 2 seasons to go it's unlikely these issues will be resolved quickly...;)
I am very excited for S9!! (I didn't think I would be, but I am now...:) )
xx
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Yeah me neither. I don't get people always picking on one of them. They both have flaws. And hey, that's why I love them so much, because they're human. :)
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That's what I assumed it meant right away. And I totally agree with your thoughts re Sam reacting to the mass angel-fall. The final trial never completed, and he appeared to have fought off the onset of symptoms, so it HAD to be a reaction to the angels falling.
some comments (not on LJ mind) that Sam was being selfish when he mentions Dean turning to Benny and Cas (not wanting Dean to have friends). My reaction is ... UM...WHAT?!?! I know we all watch the show differently (and that's OK!!), but Sam being selfish? Wasn't that all about Sam thinking he keeps letting Dean down? That Dean couldn't turn to him because he thought Dean doesn't trust him? I dunno. I just can't see selfishness in that moment. As a Dean!girl who loves Sam, I'm with you there. I don't get it, either, but I have for sure seen comments like that coming from those who have no love for the younger Winchester. I'm not really surprised that those folk would see " ( ... )
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Yeah. It's so clear now. During the ep I thought it was the after effect of the trials. But Sammy got a double whammy...
Fandom, man, what're you gonna do? :/
Yeah and I don't get into any discussions about it outside of LJ because I get that people have set ideas about the characters. I suppose I can see how Sam could be seen as selfish, but I've never seen that in him (even in S1!), so I'm probably a little blind to it anyway...;D
xox
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I don't get into any discussions about it outside of LJ
"Set ideas", you're not kidding. I've had my throat jumped down a few times too many for raising "unpopular" opinions on my own LJ. It ain't safe NOWHERE. :P I refuse to surround myself with all Dean!girls or all Sam!girls (and simply avoid the extremists), because, as amber1960 says below, SPN is about the brothers. Not Sam!only, not Dean!only, not the supporting characters, but the brothers Winchester.
Agreed that they can both be quite ridiculously selfish at times -- I spent the first ten episodes of S8 itching to smack both of them upside the head, but I don't believe that Sam's comment re angels and vampires arose from "jealousy" and "not wanting Dean to have other friends." (Seriously, wtf?)
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