Out of curiosity's sake...

[arthoniel]

...Also because not everyone on my flist is a Trekkie, and I don't want to bore everyone with my Star Trek-related squee...

I'll ask about a hot topic issue!!! That is obviously the... logical thing to do. Yes. It is.  XD

The idea is somewhat stolen from fearfulwarrior, but... not asking about religion here. At least not directly...

I'm asking about gay rights!!

Comments

[fearfulwarrior]

I don't get it, I don't. Even when I was a firm Bible-believing Christian, I never understood the hate. To me, this is the biggest example of people allowing personal preference or whatever get in the way of what they believe. I mean, Jesus cared about EVERYONE, and got pissed at people who hated on others. So, yeah. I think gay marriage is a good thing. Although, I've probably said before, I don't believe in marriage. But that's another topic.

[arthoniel]

Well, yeah, not believeing in marriage at all is entirely seperate. But people have used religion for a lot of hateful things in the past, which is why I've never really been able to be a part of it myself. No bitching on those who have- if you're religious, then fine. That's not my buisness. But... despite my little to nonexistant knowledge of religion, I would have thought that God loves everyone and all... so yeah, pretty much, I agree with a lot of that. XD

[fearfulwarrior]

I have to say, though, I do think that religions should be able to think homosexuality is wrong. I don't, personally, but if that's what they want, whatever. I mean, my church thinks pre/extramarital sex is wrong, and I don't think that. But there have been plenty of people who have gone to my church who were living together, and there wasn't really any issue. I don't get why people don't have protests about that, I mean, extramarital sex has/will do MUCH more to threaten the "nuclear family" (wtf does that even mean, anyway?) than homosexuality

[arthoniel]

Well yeah, I completely agree with you there. Again, we're all entitled to our opinons, and if someone disagrees with me, that's completely thier right. I just get upset when they try to stop me entirely. Like, you mentioned how your dad wouldn't marry a gay couple. That's fine- that's his right to choose. My problem comes when he tries to stop them from getting married at all, and specifically talks to others to make sure they cannot get married, period. But we're all entitled to our opinions.

[scholars]

I'm for it. I don't consider legal marriage to be a religious thing. You don't have to be religious to get married. It's just a contract that gives you and your spouse certain benefits and I don't think religious beliefs should influence it. If a homosexual couple wants the religious ceremony with a minister and all that stuff, that should be allowed too, but only if they can find one who's willing to do it. Like... I don't think churches should be forced to perform the ceremony because I understand that's against their beliefs, but the legal bit recognized by the government should be available to anyone who's 18+ and wants to.

Also I bet nothing I said made any sense, so whatever. I don't plan on ever being married so it doesn't affect me. :D

[arthoniel]

No, I actually got that! And... I was talking to my parents about it recently as well, and my dad has the exact same viewpoint... and mine is pretty similar as well. I see marriage as a bit more than that, usually, but people also marry for many other reasons (i.e., immigrants marry to stay in the country, etc.) and no one really seems to be freaking out about that, so...

[arthoniel]

Exactly. So many people are so afraid of change... except that's the one constant. That everything changes, and all you get to do is roll with the punches.

And that's precisely what gets me. One woman can adopt a kid, but two can't. Because that makes total sense.

Posting with inappropriate icon for the lulz

[starsandtildes]

Permit an actual gay (I hate to pull the gay card but sometimes it's necessary) have a dissenting voice?

Granted, my dissenting voice is because unlike The Movement, I don't believe "marriage is love", but rather for the protection of women and children, and in a world where people freely divorce as they please I don't see the point. Most discrimination isn't in the law anyway, it's people's opinions, and there's no way that's going to change. I'm one of those weird conservatives who actually laments the fall of religious belief and education and civility in western society, so I think that people like Dan Savage are the worst goddamn thing for gay rights ever.

Inappropriate icon yay! XD

[arthoniel]

Oh, don't worry about that. I do it too, when I have to... and I'm not even sure about it myself. I'm more... exploring how I feel, you know? But I won't go into it- I generally try to save the breakthroughs for therapy. XD

Oh god, Dan Savage. No matter what I'm arguing, I generally try to keep it civil, but... geez, he's so fucking ridiculous. And that people listen to him... but that's not the point.

The point is, yes most discrimination is in people's opinions, but I think that it could change, given the belief that it could and some time. If people don't think it will change, they will generally find some way to make that happen, and that's why it keeps going. Just 60 years ago, people thought that racial discrimination was how things were supposed to be, and that wasn't going to change, and then the civil rights movement happened. All I'm saying is, while right now many people are against it, with the proper information and cultural shift, it could happen. At least, that's how I see it.

Re: Inappropriate icon yay! XD

[starsandtildes]

I forgot to actually make my point lol. Way to go, self, for trying to post a quick response on an iPod while half-asleep

[arthoniel]

Oh, don't worry about that. I mean, I've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Except, it's my phone instead of my iPod... but close enough. XD

[arthoniel]

I actually would be interested in reading what you wrote- I'm curious to see what you think! :)

As for the reasons you gave, many of those questions are somewhat unanswerable (like the "what is marriage?" one- it could be different for everybody) but... at least, the way I see it, for the slippery slope one, for instance... so what? Now, I'll admit that this is the extremely liberal side of me coming out, but... I honestly have no problem with polygamy and/or incest. The way I see it, if people really love each other, then that's fine. I wouldn't do it, but if others want to, that's thier buisness. The Christian standpoint one I simply can't argue, because under that, I was born a sinner since I'm a woman and I'm Jewish, and there's nothing I can do to change that, so... yeah, I have nothing to say to that. And the legal benefits one... what possible purpose could that serve? Calling it something different... it's still the same thing. "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" and all

[arthoniel]

Er... I kinda don't have a Google account. Can you e-mail it to me or something? I don't know how it works with Google Docs...