(Untitled)

[argentlion]

Guys I am curious, tons of commercials have been promising “love and tax breaks” for the middle class. Actually a lot of talk has gone into the plight of the middle class. I am just curious to see who my intrepid readers think these middle class people are. For purposes of my example let’s assume are talking the household income of a family with

Comments

[lady_guenievre]

I filled out the poll, but I'm not sure that this can be diagrammed so neatly - given the crazy difference in costs between various places.

[argentlion]

I appreciate you taking the time to fill out the poll, you make an excellent point, however we are talking about tax breaks promised to a particular "class" a person who makes $60K a year in New York, pays the same federal taxes as a man who makes $60K a year in Mobile Al, although they have could be living radically different lives. I have yet to see a plan from my government or from a candidate that discusses altering tax code to consider your zip code in your assessment, and since they are promising Tax breaks to Americans who are middle class I wondered who these people might be, and I also wondered what would others consider to be middle class?

[soucyn]

I just answered as per where I live. So, I figured for the Triangle area of NC.

There is a bit of regulation to your federal income tax based on where you live. You can deduct your state taxes, so people in NYC who pay more state taxes than NC, would be able to deduct more from their federal taxable income.

[colin_g]

sorry, that's not "regulation". In fact that's worse. Mr. AL60K would get a lower deduction than Mr. NYC60K and thus Mr. AL60K would pay more in federal taxes that go disproportionally away from his community and into the larger urban areas. Why should Mr. AL60K have to subsidize Mr. NYC60K by redistributing his wealth to these mammuth cities who've never seen a tax they couldn't get behind?

[paquerette]

I would say around 30K for the former, since that's where we usually hover and we seem to be on the edge.

[margaretc]

My mom gets roughly $7500 per year. No, I didn't misplace a decimal point.
She also gets food stamps, medicaid, medicare, and a fair amount of money from me.
She is decidedly lower class.
However, if she got $20,000, she wouldn't qualify for the food stamps or medicaid anymore, which would be waaaay more expensive to replace than the difference between her $7500 current amount.

[reasdream]

I admit I guessed at the upper levels, and at all of it. I know where I am with my paycheck, but I get help from my family. I also have grad student loans.

And I have no idea what a salary looks like in a for=profit job.

[soucyn]

I think a large part of this question is that it's a bit too black and white

stuck in that valley

[colin_g]

"Do you give them more government hand outs, or put in some other sort of assistance programs, or subsidize their health care, or their mortgages?"

Why do either*? Get off their backs and empower them to make the jump if they have the drive to do so.

*mindful that we have committed to the retired and the disabled and that type of contract should only be broken under the gravest of cases...as in "the country is broke."

Re: stuck in that valley

[soucyn]

When you say "get off their backs" I wonder, how much are they paying in taxes now? I doubt very much at all.

Empowerment is really what I was thinking about, it's just a question of "how?" If they can't afford health coverage, all their work could be wiped out by sudden illness. If they are already stretched thin, that work can be wiped out by one of income earners losing their job (due to factors outside their control).

If every penny you earn is already budgeted into the basics (housing, food, utilities, and gas to get to work), how do you get people to save a nest egg in case they lose their job? How do they find the cash to get training for a new job?

Re: stuck in that valley

[colin_g]

John McCain's health care plan will help them. You can read an independent evaluation from WSJ

And believe me, there are always pennies that can be saved. Why do you think I'm not playing in the SCA right now? We needed to make priority decisions (course we are currently watching those saving go down the toilet but that is another story...)