Comments | arabian: Doctor Who, 4x13 - "Journey's End" thoughts

arabian

Doctor Who, 4x13 - "Journey's End" thoughts

Jul 05, 2008 23:00

Okay, so I don't know how coherent this will be, but I'll try. Sadly, I did not like this one as much as I did the last three. It was really good, and it was certainly better than the conclusion of season three, but it was no "The Parting of the Ways" or "Doomsday," and just not the strongest finish to the one-two punch of "Turn Left" and "The ( Read more... )

catherine tate, doctor who, donna noble, tv, doctor/rose, billie piper

Comments 20

myalltheworld July 6 2008, 09:50:25 UTC

- A few questions about the revelations from Caan that didn't happen or make sense ... why DID Rose have to be there the way Davros said? That didn't make sense. Even bigger ... what most faithful companion? None of 'em died. Well, except for Jack, but he wasn't dead. And as the Doctor was leaving, Caan called out that one would still die. Was that supposed to be DonnaDoctor? If so? Totally lame, sorry, Rusty.
Rose had to be there a) because she'd already seen it happen in her universe, b) because she'd been fighting to get back to this universe since he'd abandoned her there, c) because someone needed to take the Doctor-Forged-In-War back, and make him better, and d) because I don't think the Doctor's emergence as the destroyer of worlds would have had quite the same effect if it had been just Martha or Donna there (they've already spent time curbing his destructive nature, and he never loved them as much as he loves Rose). Rose is the innocent of the lot, even if she's seen so much more. She's the one with the eternal hope, always ( ... )

arabian July 12 2008, 15:16:57 UTC

No, I get why (for the viewer) that Rose had to be there, but I meant from Davros' point of view. Because he said specifically that she had to be there for what was supposed to happen, and I saw nothing that indicated in any way why Rose, specifically, had to be there for anything to happen as Davros planned.

Yes, (a) Jack died, but that, as I said above, was a cop-out. Rusty said someone would die. Jack can't die, so cop-out. And (b), it was said again after Jack died, which meant? Donna? I'm sorry but losing all of her Doctor memories doesn't translate to death for me at all. In fact, I vehemently deny that interpretation as someone who accepted and appreciated Donna's end. Yes, she lost the memories of the Doctor and their travels, but that did NOT kill her, nor kill who Donna was. I think the whole point of "Turn Left" (and the Doctor's comment to Sylvia about showing Donna she believes in her) was to show that Donna doesn't need the Doctor be the amazing, brilliant woman she became. She just needs someone, anyone, to ( ... )

sammie28 July 6 2008, 15:44:31 UTC

Like you, I loved the Nine references. It brings Rose's story full circle. RTD started it by bringing in a battered war survivor and made him fall in love with Rose; I always felt that part of what drove the beauty of Nine and Rose was that Nine needed Rose so desperately at that point in his life. Ten was partly a result of Rose's healing of Nine. Now that RTD is leaving, he wraps it up, giving Rose human!Doctor who had just committed genocide; it returns back to the Nine/Rose theme. It wraps up Rose; not that she can't return, but her story feels complete (in your words, has been "told").

And, as you mentioned, the Donna-Rose "Journey's End"-"PotW" parallels - saving the world, and then being saved from what was killing her in her head by the Doctor. But having all Donna's memories wiped...that STINKS! I mean, it was beautiful writing and bittersweet and painful, but from a purely character standpoint, I'd be so mad, lol.

arabian July 12 2008, 15:21:12 UTC

Yes, I loved the full-circle aspect of it. Because, Rose/10 purists bedamned, it BEGAN with Nine. Rose fell in love with NINE! Ten was just a continuation; of course, it grew stronger, but that's because she had more time with him.

it returns back to the Nine/Rose theme

Aww, I love this line. Awww.

having all Donna's memories wiped...that STINKS! I mean, it was beautiful writing and bittersweet and painful, but from a purely character standpoint, I'd be so mad, lol.

As I said in my last response, I disagree. I'm so writing a Donna/RTD defense post. Totally, LOL!

the_spin July 7 2008, 01:51:42 UTC

Even though I'm not a gigantic Nine fan, I really loved the way they looped Rose's story back to her beginning with him. That was really, really beautifully done. I just wish the beach scene had been as beautifully done as the one in 'Doomsday.' Oh, if wishes were horses.

And haha, yes, where the hell was Tom Milligan? Martha/Tom Milligan is totally one of my OTP's on this show, purely because they were unbearably hot together.

arabian July 12 2008, 15:22:54 UTC

I can't conceive of not being a gigantic Nine fan, LOL! But I'm glad you liked how it went back to the beginning.

Sigh, yes, if wishes were horses. It would have taken so very little for it to just fly ... but ah well.

I loved Martha/Tom. Dangit, Freema Agyeman and Tom Willis had CHEMISTRY!!!! What the hell!?!? Where is that actor? Ah well, if Martha is going to Torchwood, maybe we'll see Tom then? That would certainly get me off my butt and watching Torchwood.

the_spin July 12 2008, 15:36:41 UTC

I can't conceive of not being a gigantic Nine fan, LOL

I know, right? Everyone loves him, and I always feel a little left out. It's so weird.

And did you see that re-edit of the scene that someone posted on YouTube? It was AWESOME. I was like 'why did they not do that on the show?!?' I mean, I know they wanted it to be ambiguous and heart-breaking, but I wouldn't prefered a lower degree of discomfort.

arabian July 12 2008, 15:44:43 UTC

Yeah, it's just ... inconceivable. I mean, he's the male equivalent of Donna in the level of awesomeness.

Yes, I saw the re-edit. I was actually going to link to that, but figured it wasn't mine and that you HAD seen it, LOL! Yeah, take the Confidential kiss edited in and that "new" ending and it works much better.

I do get what they were going for, but they needed to do like the re-edit, or have some sort of Rose/Doctor (TenII) moment that showed Rose seeing him as The Doctor. I still think it should have been TenII with whom Rose shared the in-joke about Gwyneth/Gwen. Such a small thing, but would have been very telling, I think.

Ah well, those horses again.

chalcidice July 7 2008, 04:24:31 UTC

To be perfectly honest, I think deep down I was disappointed. The purpose of the finale in my opinion was to bring closure to RTD's storylines ( ... )

arabian July 12 2008, 15:37:54 UTC

To be perfectly honest, I think deep down I was disappointed. The purpose of the finale in my opinion was to bring closure to RTD's storylines.

I think reading analysis from people who did love it and explored some great themes will really help if you rewatch. butterfly has some awesome points of view that really help aspects that may have bothered you. And unfolded73 brings out a fabulous point in the first part of her picspam ... this specifically in reference to the Doctor listening to Davros' speech:

"The man who keeps running. Never looking back because he dare not, out of shame." This scene is CRUCIALLY important to understanding the ending at Bad Wolf Bay. I don't want to go into it a lot right now, but it is clear to me that the Doctor is eating up what Davros is saying here. He believes he does turn those close to him into weapons. He believes he is poison to the people around him. He believes he deserves to be alone.As for closure, I think that RTD did do that. Rose got closure, as did Donna -- more on that later, Martha, Jack, Mickey, ( ... )

chalcidice July 28 2008, 15:34:28 UTC

Firstly, I can't believe how long it's been since I've been on LJ, sorry it's taken so long to respond. Secondly, I think I've read your post on why Donna's exit was good. I think now that I have watched and re-watch and re-watched again, I have no real problems with the ending, I think the finale had me so shocked I just didn't know how to respond. I didn't hate it and didn't love it from the conclusion which I think started my confusion.

Specifically getting rid of the Moffat two-parter which really did disrupt the emotional flow of the season (and just wasn't that good).

I completely agree. I don't understand how any of this had any major importance other than Donna ending up in another parallel universe. But I'm sure they could have incorporated that into another episode. To go off topic, I have major concerns about Moffat because his episodes never flow within a DW series arc. So I am really wondering how Series Five will be written.

Other than the Doctor saying there was only one reason he would tell her his name -- ( ... )

yinkawills July 8 2008, 02:05:19 UTC

Catherine Tate is a comedienne/comic actor famous in the UK for a brilliant sketch show,two of her characters- an elderly, foul mouthed grandmother and a stroppy teenage schoolgirl became national icons. Try and see if you can either buy the DVDs of the show or get to see it on the internet ( ... )

nina_ds July 9 2008, 17:58:00 UTC

I don't know that I have anything to add, but I just have to repeat these two paragraphs:

To be completely honest, the main reason I don't think that I'll ever look forward to Doctor Who again to this anxious, joyful degree isn't because, essentially, the Rose/Doctor story has been told, but because so has Donna Noble's. I love Donna. Unlike some, I actually loved her from about five minutes in from her first appearance in The RuMnaway Bride when she was rash, brash, rude and a tad dim. And my love for her just grew over this season. Partly how she was written, yes, but I think, mostly, because Catherine Tate is just brilliant. I've never seen her before, never even heard of her before, but my GOD! can this woman act. I don't think she's capable of a wrong note. I really don't ( ... )

arabian July 12 2008, 15:41:58 UTC

Oh, I agree that this wasn't the best series, but Donna is just so fabulous. Don't know nor care about Lesley Sharp, but to see Eccleston and Tate on screen together, penned by RTD? Oh, what bliss, what heaven that would be.

arabian July 12 2008, 15:40:53 UTC

Oh, I know who Catherine Tate is, I've just never seen her work or had heard of her before Who. Well, as I said above, I don't believe that it was death in any way, shape or form for Donna.