the catholic question?

[antfan]

So good to find this site, full of other people who share a passions for the Marlows    Fascinating that people have such very different responses. Never occurred to me that you could love the books but not Nicola, or that anyone actually liked Patrick Merrick….

So I’d like to ask opinions about something I find puzzling. All the obits/biogs say

Comments

[blonde222]

I don't know, but I DO like Patrick!

[ex_lizzzar998]

I haven't read the historical novels recently, but I remember that Shakespeare is pretty tolerant. The significance of Catholicism for AF seems to be related to the fact that when she converted she thought it would have "doctrinal stability" (think I got this from the introduction of the Girls' Gone By editions) and this is why she was so opposed to Vatican 11 when it happened. Possibly she thought this was something she needed because of some uncertainties in her own life, or just from reading Evelyn Waugh - I don't know. But I think it is implied that Shakespeare is so transcendently understanding that he doesn't need such a fixed base for things - maybe at times AF wished she was more like this. As for the Essex plotters, Shakespeare is clearly supportive of his government, and believes that no religious grounds could justify becoming a traitor to it. AF seems basically supportive of this view - the Merricks are a bit muddled over it. In the case of Patrick Merrick, his religious certainties are clearly bound up with the whole

[antfan]

Thank you Lizzar, that's very interesting. Although if you are aware that you are choosing a religion because you are craving personal stability, and that religion claims pretty much absolute authority in spiritual/doctrinal terms, and yet you are understanding/envious of people who don't require it, doesn't that suggest you are in danger of turning religion into your own D-I-Y personal psychological choise - as Jukie seems to do in Thuggery Affair? I mean there seems to be some kind of paradox there.

By the way, I should say I initially posted this to my journal by mistake some times ago -I had just joined LJ and wasn't very good at the logistics of it all - then put it on Trennels, where it sparked off a thread which may interest you.

[antfan]

Thought of another way of putting this: if AF chooses Catholicism and all its claims, and Shakespeare has the option of doing so and doesn't, then surely he is (according to a Catholic perspective) throwing away all that is most valuable in life. It is not a matter of what suits the individual but eternity. So if AF understands and sympathises with his viewpoint there is a contradiction there surely? This is why I find it hard to understand how a very doctrinally rigid catholic can also be such am empathetic multidimensional writer.

[ex_lizzzar998]

I think there is a paradox in AF's Catholism - it appears to be personal to her, despite the orthodoxy. She always refused to accept Vatican 11, and apparently only attended the Latin Mass. Maybe some-one who was raised a Catholic could comment further on the doctrine.

[ex_lizzzar998]

Further to Oliver Cromwell, i am not an expert, but I think it unlikely that he is necessarily regarded as particularly tolerant in Ireland.

[antfan]

ouch - yes, point taken.

[ext_6136200]

Hello. I think I used to be charverz on LJ, but I can't retrieve my account as I retired and lost my work email.

I hope I can give some insights on AF's (and Patrick's) Catholicism. I was born Catholic, and can remember the latin Mass (I was 10 when Vatican II was going on). There were a lot of changes that shook people's faith. Priests left the priesthood, and it was sometimes hard to get consistent answers to questions. I've taught adult catechism for converts for thirty years now, and many are attracted to Catholicism because it has doctrine.

Patrick reminds me of a much younger me. He is a little too sure of his ability to avoid serious sin, which could set him up for a serious stumble, morally speaking.

The Catholic Question

[ext_6136200]

Hello. I think I used to be charverz on LJ, but I can't retrieve my account as I retired and lost my work email.

I hope I can give some insights on AF's (and Patrick's) Catholicism. I was born Catholic, and can remember the latin Mass (I was 10 when Vatican II was going on). There were a lot of changes that shook people's faith. Priests left the priesthood, and it was sometimes hard to get consistent answers to questions. I've taught adult catechism for converts for thirty years now, and many are attracted to Catholicism because it has doctrine.

Patrick reminds me of a much younger me. He is a little too sure of his ability to avoid serious sin, which could set him up for a serious stumble, morally speaking.