A big yes to all of that :). And I wish I felt surprised about what you say in your second paragraph, but right now I think my faith in humanity is a little dented, and it's very easy to believe. I'm sure (I hope, anyway) that many just never think about it in those terms - never pause to consider the impact it might have on gay men - but what really angers me is, when the issues are pointed out to them, they refuse to listen.
I think your last point needs to be repeated over and over. I keep seeing people bringing up the issue of whether authors have responsibility towards those they write about - as if authors are in some way special, and no longer required to think of the feelings of others - which, I believe, is a requirement if you want to consider yourself a good person.
That is very interesting. I can't help but wonder what subconcious motivation is behind that - the desire to exert power and control by 'making' someone 'act gay' seems, to me, to involve quite a negative attitudes towards gay acts - exercising power by forcing someone to do something percieved as demeaning or degrading. Then I suppose a possible reason for the age split is that women aged 40+ would have probably grown up and been socialised in a much more homophobic society, and still have some hangover from that (although I always tend to assume that older slashers are going to be more open-minded, not less). Or maybe I'm being uncharitable. At the moment I seem to be seeing everything in the worst possible light.
Anyway. It's a pity you weren't able to turn it into a book or article, but I don't blame you for becoming disillusioned. This debate's been going for, I don't know, two weeks? And I'm already exhausted.
Here via sparkindarkness's journal, and I just wanted to say to this: What about women going up to gay men in the street or in a bar, and asking them to kiss, or about their sex lives? Because that happens
Really? Seriously? This happens? Wtf, people? What kind of a sense of entitlement leads to that kind of behavior? That is appalling... Watching porn is one thing - that's what it's for - but I... can't even wrap my mind around this, esp. against the context of freaking decades of effort in society and the courts to force straight men to learn that women's bodies are not playgrounds or playthings for men. It's not progress to declare that turnabout is fair play, as you say.
It's happened to me in pride parades and gay bars. Gah, I've actually had some gay bars (and certainly gay nights) feel like alien spaces because there were so many women playing tourist, sight seer and generally drooling that it was damned uncomfortable. And in the end, there's not much the management can do. It doesn't happen often but now and then you'll get a few - or a party in there to look at the pretty gays.
Yep! I'm almost used to comments such as 'that's hot' or 'can I watch?' when meeting straight men with a girlfriend, but even so I was shocked when a gay friend told me about this. Especially since they asked him for a photo, which just added an extra layer of ick. The main gay bar in Glasgow can be almost impossible for lesbians and other queer women to get into, because the management has responded to the problem of parties of straight women coming in by keeping out almost all women. And it's just...gay bars are supposed to be our space, but straight women coming in takes that away. (I'm in no way meaning to demonise straight women, because I know this is a minority. Just one that pisses me off very much.)
Comments 11
(The comment has been removed)
I think your last point needs to be repeated over and over. I keep seeing people bringing up the issue of whether authors have responsibility towards those they write about - as if authors are in some way special, and no longer required to think of the feelings of others - which, I believe, is a requirement if you want to consider yourself a good person.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Anyway. It's a pity you weren't able to turn it into a book or article, but I don't blame you for becoming disillusioned. This debate's been going for, I don't know, two weeks? And I'm already exhausted.
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Really? Seriously? This happens? Wtf, people? What kind of a sense of entitlement leads to that kind of behavior? That is appalling... Watching porn is one thing - that's what it's for - but I... can't even wrap my mind around this, esp. against the context of freaking decades of effort in society and the courts to force straight men to learn that women's bodies are not playgrounds or playthings for men. It's not progress to declare that turnabout is fair play, as you say.
::goes off to boggle quietly::
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment